With victories vital for countries to get the best seeding for the 2015 World Cup pool allocation draw on December 3 the end of year Tests have become fiercely contested affairs.
The IRB world rankings will be used to rank the 12 directly qualified teams for England 2015 into three bands for that draw. Sides ranked one to four in band one will avoid each other until the knockout stages.
Countries ranked five to eight will be in band two and the remaining four in band three.
If the pool allocation draw was to happen now, the bands would be as follows:
Band 1: New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, France
Band 2: England, Ireland, Wales, Samoa
Band 3: Argentina, Italy, Tonga, Scotland
Band 4: Oceania 1, Europe 1, Asia 1, Americas 1
Band 5: Africa 1, Europe 2, Americas 2, Repechage winner
Only four automatically qualified teams are in action this weekend. Below is a table of exactly how this weekend's results could affect the automatically qualified teams' ratings points.
England v New Zealand, Twickenham
Current rating: England 81.07; New Zealand 92.91
If home team wins by more than 15 points: Eng 83.90; NZ 90.08
If home team wins by 15 points or less: Eng 82.95; NZ 91.03
If away team wins by 15 points or less: Eng 80.95; NZ 93.03
If away team wins by more than 15 points: Eng 80.90; NZ 93.08
If it's a tie: Eng 81.95; NZ 92.03
Wales v Australia, Cardiff
Current rating: Wales 78.95; Australia 86.31
If home team wins by more than 15 points: Wal 81.11; Aus 84.16
If home team wins by 15 points or less: Wal 80.39; Aus 84.87
If away team wins by 15 points or less: Wal 78.39; Aus 86.87
If away team wins by more than 15 points: Wal 78.11; Aus 87.16
If it's a tie: Wal 79.39; Aus 85.87
Top 20 in the latest IRB rankings:
1. New Zealand 92.91
2. South Africa 86.94
3. Australia 86.31
4. France 85.07
5. England 81.07
6. Ireland 80.22
7. Wales 78.95
8. Samoa 78.71
9. Argentina 78.71
10. Italy 76.24
11. Tonga 76.10
12. Scotland 75.83
13. Fiji 71.52
14. Canada 71.41
15. Japan 70.09
16. USA 68.32
17. Georgia 65.83
18. Spain 63.09
19. Romania 62.12
20. Russia 61.49
With thanks to the IRB
Comments
jontheref says...
Well we will know on Monday, and as Total Rugby, with their simpleton's "predictions" of the groups, 1, 5, 9, 13, 17 in the first group, 2,6, 10, 14, 18 in the next, it does not address what is more important than the group, it is who you may meet once the knock outs start.
As Gatland said, with the right draw, being 7th or 9th may have very little difference in three years time.
Wales could end up with Argentina whthere they are 7th or 9th.
Depends on the draw.
Bambo and new_j4a
please make up, and go for a coffee together, whilst I support your right to have a POV, it is getting more juvenile by the post.
You don't get on, live with it!
Posted 08:20 30th November 2012
new_j4a says...
@APV1, Right you are. Back to rugby. I just deleted my query about his petite french girlfriend's pert nipples and cancelled my quest to find a female primary school teacher to validate my existence.
Yes the RWC pools are going to be interesting. Boks are a bit over rated at the moment and I expect Oz to slide back into second place this weekend. I expect that there will be at least 2 teams able to challenge the mighty All Blacks in 2 years and I fear that the Boks may not be one of them if we don't continue seriously developing young players. England is looking good...Alex Goode may be world class by then....so much is going to change in 2 years
Posted 13:32 29th November 2012
APV1 says...
@ Bambo & new_j4a - whilst your on-going squabble is entertaining, it is starting to stray from rugby a little. Any chance of wrangling it back on topic?
@ Bambo - just a thought, regarding the reviewing of posts by a colleague. There was too much stacked in your favour:
1. They are your colleague and, as such, I'd expect them to automatically favour your POV, regardless of how objective they are. I'm not suggesting that they weren't able to be critical of you or your comments, but they might not worry about upsetting new_j4a, who they have no contact with or interest in.
2. You also identified yourself to your colleague, thus removing a huge chunk of the available objectivity.
3. You selected the posts for them to review.
Had you shown them a wide selction of threads and asked them to critique all of the posters' styles and comments, it would have been a much fairer experiment.
Just a thought, from a scientific pov. No bias one way or the other. As I mentioned, your continued bickering with new_j4a is rather entertaining, so I don't mind if it continues.
Rankings you say? Well I'd rather England ended up with either Australia or South Africa than NZ or France. And Tonga or Scotland, rather than Italy or Argentina.
Posted 10:37 29th November 2012
new_j4a says...
@bambo who says "We need to break the cycle of this discussion" Fine. You restarted it in spite of my request that you not go there. You are obviously very troubled by it while I am mildly amused by the dual task of getting you spill large volumes of self justification and, secondly, seeing if I can get you to expose your hypocrisy by descending to the levels you claim to abhor.....check in both those 2 tick boxes, though the second is a work in progress (but bonus points accrue for exposing porkies, especially if this produces a torrent of justification) . I am more than happy to walk away from each other and studiously ignore you on this site....or alternatively to continue....there is so much more to dig and poke at.....your father's racist past as a colonial policeman and plantation foreman, for example? You chose, bimbo, you are clearly not the sharpest crayon in the box and this is consuming valuable time that you could spend browsing the Laws of rugby.....or even watching it with your Matty Williams training.
Al the best, Clement.
Posted 07:51 29th November 2012
Bambo says...
new_j4a - Final therapy session.
We need to break the cycle of this discussion. I fear I'm doing your fragile psyche damage by challenging the things you claim and say through your PR alter ego.
Try what I did today. I took a selection of the posts you and I have made to a colleague I respect. I told her I was Bambo and asked her what she thought. She found mine sometimes funny and challenging and occasionally pompous (moi!?). Yours she thought unusual and confrontational and occasionally very offensive or chidish.
Why don't you try the same? Get your child/wife/girlfriend/doctor/therapist/STD clinician (the one who supplies you and your mates those antibiotics you mentioned) and ask them what they think of you as 'justice'. If they say 'No problem' then you need not honour your earlier promise to tell me your real name. If they worry, like me, that you might one day be at the centre of an Ipswich style manhunt then please honour your promise and from there get the help your dual persona is so obviously crying out for.
Go for it. Heal thyself, ye scutter ye!
Posted 22:46 28th November 2012
Bambo says...
new_j4a aka 'justice' - Sorry I'm late for your educational therapy session but we worked over at school.
What is it with issues 'familial'? First of all you claim elsewhere to have shared my mother sexually with your mates. Lovely stuff. Now you bring in my father. You're not about to raise some sexual issue involving him too, are you? He is sadly nolonger 'here' so you might have to really plumb the depths of your sexual imagination. I know you can do it, old fellah!
He was almost a cliched Scot - Black Watch service, regimental boxing champ at light weight, colonial policeman then plantation director. He even played football for his adopted African nation as an international. See, he understood how you could be from one nation but also belong to and love another and even claim it as your own. In rugby now many players and fans do the same? I bet Dusautoir loves Cote D'Ivoire as much as he does France, non?
So, my physog is genetically Scottish and I love Scotland (I work in Scotland, have 2 houses in Scotland, family and friends who are Scottish, pupils and colleagues and an employer who are Scottish etc) but I don't consider myself Scottish or a Scottish supporter. Even then I do root for them occasionally just as I do my African 'home' though funnily not my English 'home' where I was schooled and given my RP accent courtesy of my dear old mother, remember her?
'Nation' and 'supporter' have a quiddity for me and many that is flexible, dual, changeable and 21st C. Yours is blunt and rigid and reeks of the binary visions of the 20th C. You = history, I = 'now'. It's not just an age thing its also a philosophical thing.
Posted 22:33 28th November 2012
new_j4a says...
@Jp07 says..."Pathetic supporters? What exactly are you basing that on?" on bimbo, no offense intended to your good self...collateral damage, you might say.
Posted 16:52 28th November 2012
new_j4a says...
@bimbo, these "multicultural roots" you talk about, does that mean that you don't know who your father is.....a wide spectrum of possible nationalities?
All my best, Clement.
Posted 10:37 28th November 2012
new_j4a says...
@bimbo, Oh really? You seem now to be experiencing a crisis of identity with the plunge in Scottish rugby fortunes.....now causing you to abandon your Scottish heritage, but still continue to spew great volumes of personal info that nobody really cares about given that you are a thick [fill in the identity du jour] primary school teacher who doesn't understand the Laws of rugby and takes advice from Matty Williams about what to think....
Last month, you wrote this about yourself.....notice the 10th word:
"Bambo says...
Can't deny that a smile crept over my grim Scottish physog with this result. Unlike new_j4a I have no penance due for disrespect so shall enjoy a wee pint or two this evening.
Posted 16:37 20th October 2012"
All my best, Clement.
Posted 09:36 28th November 2012
Bambo says...
new_j4a - As I've told you before, several times, I'm not Scottish. You also know I don't support Scotland. Bloody hell, you have poor recall, especially in one who claims to have referee knowledge second to almost none! I simply live in Scotland. Like lots of American, Spanish, Italian, German etc etc people do without.....wait for the leap of logic.....having to support Scotland! Amazing, eh? So, if I must have a nationality to help your thinking out then I tend, through my somewhat multi-cultural roots, to see myself as simply a European:African! Bet that rattles your tabloid lite thinking!
So, taking you up on your offer, you start. What is your real name?
You know where I live and what my profession is. Where do you live and what did you do (I see you as most definitely retired?)?
You start but....can you be trusted? We have a 'prisoner dilemma' and 'as a pathetic human being' (my worthlessness established through some PR posts, you perceptive intellect you) can I be trusted?
Alllez Monsieur Partridge! Allez! On yer way ye wee scutter ye!
(Scutter = one tending towards bungling ineptitude)
Posted 20:11 27th November 2012
jontheref says...
rugbyrockstar
What is crazy of this system it, 1 plays 5. (NZ v Eng), a gap of 4 places.
3 plays 7. (Aus v Wales) a gap of 4 places.
BUT, the ranking differences are more in the 1 v 5, versus the 3 v 7.
IF(?) Wales beat a team 4 places above them by 15+, they increase by 2.16, yet if England beat a team 4 places above them by 15+(?) they increase by 2.83.
I suspect this is part of the reasoning, that even though Wales won the 6N unbeaten, they dropped in the seedings.
Anyway, if Wales do drop to the 3rd band, a group with one of the top four, Ireland or England, we'll still get through to the quarters at the next RWC!
Posted 18:50 27th November 2012
jontheref says...
rugbyrockstar
you seem to have missed the point of the article.
Whatever happens at twickers, England stay in the 2nd band.
Wales could drop to the 3rd band.
Posted 18:50 27th November 2012
jontheref says...
Posted 18:49 27th November 2012
new_j4a says...
The only Scot I enjoy offending is you Bimbo....you are the epitome of a pathetic supporter....and human being, come to think of it.....and any time you want to exchange real names just let me know.
Posted 14:48 27th November 2012
Trinats2 says...
three6three6:
Yes is the answer, had a few stubbies ???
"If away team wins by more than 15 points: Wal 78.11; Aus 87.16"
Australia ARE the away team ! and will move back into 2nd after they beat Wales by 15+.
Posted 11:58 27th November 2012
rugby_rockstar says...
so basically wales have to beat australia by over 15 pts and england have to lose by more than 15pts.
Don't care about england, its a dead rubber and simply a performance indicator.
Meanwhile, the chances of this welsh side walloping this austrialian side by 15 pts, who's guts in adversity are fast becoming legendary, are slim to non existant.
All told, I'd have to say that the fat lady has sung. England blew it vs Oz. Wales have just not turned up at all this november. Free range rugby rules supreme. Battery hen rugby has been shown up for the tat it is. NH, put the ledgers away and get out on the pitch and do some skills work. You're an embarassment.
Posted 09:33 27th November 2012
sirtidychris says...
You could potentially have a group with New zealand, England, Argentina, Fiji !!!
Posted 09:13 27th November 2012
carpelone says...
Thanks guys
Posted 09:04 27th November 2012
carpelone says...
Watching rugby games with Scots is always fun and a very nice experience. They cheer for Scotland but always see the other in good spirit. New_j4a, maybe you are referring to some empty stands at Murrayfield, but otherwise the Scots are among the nicest fan bunch around as far as rugby is concerned.
Posted 09:01 27th November 2012
hayj05 says...
@kpe12 - Samoa are fractionally ahead of Argentina when rounded to 15 decimal places. Crazy I know!
Shows how much influence that Samoa losing by less than 15 to France & Argentina losing by more than 15 to Ireland had.
And seeing as Argentina & Samoa aren't in action this week, it means that Samoa are guaranteed a band 2 seeding.
______
Previous post correction.
A draw will also be enough for Wales to hold on to a band 2 seeding.
QF's*
Posted 08:05 27th November 2012