Heineken Cup: Falling apart?
The Heineken Cup appears to be nearing its end after BT Vision boss Marc Watson revealed that a new competition is in the pipeline.
Following on from the groundbreaking £152m deal with Premiership Rugby that includes live broadcast rights for European games played by English clubs for three years from 2014, further doubt has been cast over a tournament that has already been rocked by news that English and French sides are threatening to walk away.
The clubs are unhappy with RaboDirect PRO12 outfits' recent glory and believe it's partly a result of a qualification system which allows them to rest their players during their league term. And chief executive Watson has now added to the speculation that the Cup is nearing a crossroads.
"We are looking to set up, or at least help set up, a dazzling new European tournament with a fantastic new format, with, we hope, all the best clubs," he told sportspromedia.com.
"And we've secured, from the English Premiership, the rights to that for the UK.
"That tournament will be the successor to the Heineken Cup, which is a very successful tournament.
"The Heineken Cup, under its current contract, has another season to run, and that will be the end of it, and we are looking to set up a brand new tournament from then.
"We saw in rugby an opportunity to own a sport exclusively, certainly at club level, and the rights that we've bought give us an opportunity to do that.
"We are hosting the Rugby World Cup in 2015 in the UK. It's a great opportunity in the two years running up to that, we think, to grow the sport.
"It's a sport that has got a long way to go. We were attracted by the idea of growing with it, and helping it to grow in the UK."
Comments
jamesliveinhope says...
@derm - be careful what you wish for, don't forget that the Saffers are on the European time zone - not a huge leap of imagination to see a 2nd tri-nations in the future if the celts don't want to do the 6N any more particularly given the new spirit of Cooperation between the SA franchises and PRL clubs.
Posted 08:24 14th September 2012
pembs says...
If I was English I would be far more worried that the clubs are now full of second rate foreign players and that the premiership is becoming increasingly more like the premier league every day. A few years down the line in this dazzling new league there will be teams fielded with no home grown talent much like the elite football teams of this era. England will become a poor international side because of this and never win an international tournament again. I also doubt very much that the players are going to welcome this dazzling new league that seems to be another way to flog already over worked burned out players. its a very sad day for rugby when profit is put before player welfare.
Posted 07:56 14th September 2012
s15rules says...
The heiniken cup is average comp anyway made up of the best nh players and the has beens of sh players scrap it start again, and cut the sh players
Posted 07:44 14th September 2012
Waz4before says...
@ ciaran1792 - full stadiums in Dublin, Cardiff and Edinburgh would not be enough to justify Celtic nations inclusion in the Rugby Championship (which was a daft comment in the first place but lets follow your logic ...). What matters in the modern world is TV coverage and commercial benefits; stadiums are nice but how many stadiums do you have to fill to get close to England's new TV deal? a lot presumably? So if the Rugby Championship were to expand up North for some bizarre reason its likely to be in countries with, what, say 50-60 million people in them, .... err like England and France maybe?
Posted 06:50 14th September 2012
derm says...
Congrats England - we want to promote the game and develop it. Blah, Blah,Blah - all you want is more money and to weaken the game in other countries that recently have become such a threat to what was a successful sport for you.
The Premiership even offered up the excuse that it was wrong of the likes of Leinster to be able to rest players - what c*ap but nobody complains when Leicester field a weakened team against London Welsh. If you have a good enough and big enough squad you will still be successful.
So the English clubs have been planning this for awhile now - quit the ERC (who on behalf of all the groups did a deal with Sky to show the games and then distributed that money fairly and equitable between all the clubs involved) and set up their own comp and own terms for monies. Do you think BT Vision is going to offer 25.5m stg to each Italian, Irish, Scottish and Welsh club - hell no. For those that don't understand where 25.5m comes from it is the share for the 6 clubs qualifying. So who is going to buy the game from the Celts.
There is only one solution and it is a drastic one. The Celts need to align and pull out of the 6nations and Rugby World Cup.
pierredelot1 - you state taht the French clubs are so well supported that is true but only for T14 games. Your fans are pathetic at travelling to away games in the HC. The final a few years back in Dublin between 2 French teams was a joke. If the Irish fans did not go to that game, there would have been no one at it. I guarantee if it was 2 Irish or Welsh teams in a final in Paris it still would be well supported, so your comments smell of utter merde.
Posted 00:07 14th September 2012
ciaran1792 says...
GCP_JONES fair enough the pipe bomb reference was only ment as an escalation. and to be honest nothing is ott for me lol. I taught you ment what I said was stupid. my bad sorry lol
Posted 23:55 13th September 2012
Monkeyboy says...
I say sod the arrogant English clubs. Has exposed the idea that their requests for the HC to reform were fuelled by an altruistic desire for fairness. It's all about slung a greater share of the pot & to hell with their neighbours.
I wonder if the South Africans would be tempted to join a Italian/Celtic cup where ALL of their franchises can play!
Posted 21:24 13th September 2012
liam2me says...
The ERC should offer the French a nice little deal to get them on board and completely isolate the arrogant English and their buddies at Plane....Premier Rugby.
It will show them that the sub-par English sides aren't needed and would kill off their club game as all their imports would leave to play in the HEC. The RFU could then take charge of things again in a couple of years and the English clubs could be let back in with their tails between their legs
Posted 21:02 13th September 2012
leinster_goy says...
"dazzling"? if Leinster are in it then yeah, i suppose so
Posted 19:57 13th September 2012
Lucasrg says...
...you guys said it all. Let me add a thing as well.
BT also declared that they will help the Premiership clubs by financing it's own infrastructures, That means BT will finance clubs to upgrade stadiums!
3 things can happen next:
a. Heineken to taking actions against BT for infringement of contracts.
b. French rugby clubs will decline the whole thing, ridiculing the English (...god they love that!)
c. HC will find a way to modify the whole format, starting from a merit qualifications
system.
One thing is certain, this will create major attrition among European federations. BT is bound to fail. maybe couple of years before capitulate.
I used BT services for more then 3 years and they have a terrible costumer service! Anyway we will see how this thing unfolds.
Posted 19:30 13th September 2012
shoobydo says...
@astrospange
I'd love to see a NH version of super rugby, but it won't happen.
The French and English clubs already get attendances and sponsorship that are the envy of the rugby world. There is simply no reason for these clubs to give up players and fans to new franchises.
The big London clubs have been especially innovative at promoting rugby as a day out for the family - The Twickenham double header the other week being a prime example. Now they are flexing their muscles
Sadly the "80% home player rule" would be illegal under European law.
Posted 19:26 13th September 2012
astrospange says...
Can't a similar format to the S15's be introduced here in the NH? Eg. 3 teams from each of the 6 Nations with 80% of players coming from their own country? So it would be a 18 team league with the top 8 teams progressing into a knockout cup.
Posted 18:12 13th September 2012
jimbosim says...
Throw the English out of the six nations, the Celts along with Italy stick together, throw them out and i guarantee the French with snub the English and join us too leaving them drown in the greed they so crave?
If i was an English rugby supporter, i would feel ashamed of this. The destroyers of a great game in Europe. I hope they enjoy putting 50 points on each other as the standard of the premiership shows?
Posted 18:08 13th September 2012
brendosuprenzo says...
as a leinster fan i have to say the notion of us being able to rest our players so as to focus on heineken cup with a disregard of the league is nonsense. we've been in the league final 3 years running regardless of who we've put on the field. not having our 'stars' has meant we've developed a stronger (homegrown) squad so we're able to manage two competitions better.
also, we probably shouldn't really have won the h cup the last two years. if northampton hadn't crumbled in the final and if fofana had grounded that ball last year in the semi would there be any whining from england with an english and french winner?
Posted 18:02 13th September 2012
pierredelot1 says...
It's all about money. Being a professional game what the hell do people expect. Here in France (Toulouse) we will get upwards of 30,000 for a European match against one of the major clubs especially the English due to the number of travelling supporters they bring. Sadly the Celtic Clubs don't always have the same pull so stop whingeing about it or get off your backsides and follow your clubs. Armchair support is all very well but it's not the real thing. Yes it should be fair, but we need a tournament that stands fairly above any national leagues. Without France and England you won't get the numbers it would be like a league cup, but everyone will be played out and numbers will fall, so it has to be all inclusive. Sadly when it comes to creating a new event the two major nations will hold sway, thats the way the crumble cookies boys, like it or not. Professional Sport has its advantages but overall it actually changes things and in the long term it seems to be for the worst.
Posted 17:51 13th September 2012
pembs says...
I did not realise that England held the rights for the entire UK. Unbelievable arrogance
Posted 17:42 13th September 2012
GCP_JONES says...
@ ciaran1792.....
I was commenting on your pipe bomb reference I thought it was OTT. I think you get your points across well otherwise.
The Pro12 teams should join with the top 14 (who would have their noses put out of joint by the actions of the Aviva going behind every ones back). this is descending into a farce and shows professional rugby in a very bad light
Posted 17:42 13th September 2012
chesh10 says...
its gonna get real interesting when it comes to sorting out this new Euro comp that BT have mentioned.
Do the 4 respective regions that form the RD have to go in together? Or can they go in seperately? If so I think you'll see the Welsh join up pretty sharply, as their the ones who desperately need the cash. Looks like it'll be the Irish and Scots who'll have the biggest issues...
The comparisons of the AP to the ITMor Currie Cup aren't really ideal, as the NPC only has the two divisions (i believe same for CC) and it is a constant struggle to find the finance to get the teams competing (see Otago).
In terms of International prospects having the strongest base will eventually pay dividends (which he Eng. seem to have realised) but it is marginalised if their is not a level playing field (i.e. Welsh/Irish players play fewer games).
Posted 17:32 13th September 2012
campbell17 says...
So what do you want. What we have now where at least 6 countries are represented or have one which is dominated by France, England and Ireland. This is meant to be a european competition and it should be kept like that. The French and English players are still rested when playing the weaker teams, that is just what the Rabo Direct Pro12 teams are doing. I say, don't change anything.
Posted 17:15 13th September 2012
leinsterblue says...
what worries me is that this could be the death knell of professional rugby in some countries...England and France will thrive - which seems to be why this is being done - but the worry would be for Wales, Scotland, Italy and Ireland that revenue will dry up if any team fails to qualify for the 'dazzling' tournamant...
can only see this doing harm if it even goes ahead...I must admit that with all this posturing, I am quickly losing respect for the people leading the sport I love...
the only silver lining is that I can see this benefitting the SH countries - if there is a stand off between the unions up north and there is real uncertainty, then some players may choose to stay in the SH instead...
Posted 17:14 13th September 2012