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kennyisgay- So no-one cares about club rugby? Try telling that to the 165,000 fans that turned up to watch 2 regular season league games between Harlequins and Saracens! Or the 1 million+ people tha play the game at club level in this country! That must be some big bubble that im in. Pull out of international rugby? Are you mad? Been in 3 out of 7 World Cup Finals ( no other nation has been to the final more times than England), One of only four nations to have won the World Cup and one of only three to have won it on foreign soil. Not sure that thats the description of team thats 'making up the numbers'. If England did pull out of international rugby it would have a detrimental impact on most other top rugby nations financially, especially the struggling Aussie and Kiwi unions. You quote international success as vindication of the franchise system but i can tell you now that the vast majority of people in Wales would rather go back to a time when they had the Welsh Prem as their main competition. All the Welsh regions are struggling financially due to poor crowds and its all due to the fact that the fans aren't prepared to watch a team formed 10 years ago ahead of the team that they've supported since they were kids. Thats what i mean by ' plastic franchise teams' , teams with no history or tradition, and a small fan base.
Posted 20:01 12th June 2012
@ kybone... That's fine lass we'll struggle on with our plastic franchises and claim another gold cup. You blaze away with your precious provincial success that no one outside your bubble knows or cares about. You should just pull out of international rugby and concentrate on club seeing you only make up the numbers anyway. Tho Wales can join us seeing they've struggled as well with 3 grand slams in 4 years.
Posted 06:23 09th June 2012
J_Hdk im not making anything complicated. Im simply stating the number of games that would need to be squeezed into a season if you try not to overlap competitions. You're still underestimating the number of games that are played. This time in 16 days England will have just completed their 17th international this season. You can't honestly tell me that that amount of games can be played in a season which already consists of a minimum of 32 club fixtures and the need for an end of season break of at least 4 weeks minimum. So thats 49 games and an end of season break of at least a month. You also need free weekends for the teams that reach the knockout stages of the HCup, the LV Cup, and the Prem. If you get to the final of all 3 thats another 7 games! Your idea also assumes that you'll be back playing Prem rugby the weekend after the World Cup Final. This is not a personal attack on you. Your idea just doesn't stack up as you've also neglected to factor in possible cancelled fixtures due to the weather and such. It would be a nightmare
Posted 18:25 07th June 2012
Kybone you are making it more complicated than it needs to be.
47 competitive weekends in a rwc year still leaves some room for warm up matches.really it should be max three anyway and domestic friendlies can over lap with internationals without any competition losing out.
We all need to stop focusing on )things as they are and start looking at how a solution can be devised
Posted 16:44 07th June 2012
Herbman, the sound of your silence is golden......
Posted 11:24 07th June 2012
kennyisgay- do what you do down there? You mean have plastic franchise teams that struggle financially and have to be constantly backed by the union just to survive- no thanks. Wales went that way and, although the national side is doing well, the domeestic game is in a sorry state of affairs. This gap that you're talking about. Is it the same gap that Scotland bridged on tuesday. Of the 3 SH 'powers' only NZ are distinctly better than the NH best.
J_HDK - Sorry mate you're still missing the World Cup warm up matches- of which there are usually 3, then you've got the 3/4 pre season friendlies which clubs arrange. You're right in that the best players never play every game due to either injury or being rested, but the fact remains that if you don't overlap at all then theres at least one game per week every week of the year!
Posted 10:28 07th June 2012
I agree with you. I said it can be done. I never said it was very likely :)
Posted 09:41 07th June 2012
Clearly the NH season is congested, but the SH cannot be blamed for that. It is a matter for the northern unions and their clubs to sort out.
You say: ""... the World Cup is already played at a time which fits in with the Super Rugby calender"", and further: "Everything about the international calender seems to have been arranged for the benefit of the 3 SH powers.""
The World Cup is not played during the NH autumn/SH spring at the behest of the SH. The World Cup was scheduled when it is because that is when the NH unions wanted it. They outvoted the SH unions, who wanted it held in May.
It appears to me that the SH season is getting as congested as that of the NH. It was to the credit of the SH unions that Super Rugby and SH international rugby did not overlap till now. They -- and they alone -- organised it like that. I believe they have blundered in allowing Super Rugby to expand as it has.
Posted 07:10 07th June 2012
The young Irish just bagged your beloved junior boks at home, Wales had you beat in the world cup with a penalty going through the posts which everyone seen but didnt go to the TMO. & Wales were all over you like a bad case of chicken pox.
You can expect more of the same when you play them next.
PS: my money is on England beating 2-1 as well, so its a case of quit that yester year dreaming mate.
Posted 04:19 07th June 2012
LOL yes i mean the FFR lol thaks for pointing that out lol bad typing on my part im afraid .
Posted 03:02 07th June 2012
@ leinster_goy... you would say that seeing county comes before country in yours.
@ kybone... if we do what you do up there the game would die from the lack of quality. Perhaps you should do what we do down here and the gap my close a bit.
Posted 00:23 07th June 2012
I generally agree that the man's whining - no wonder that its a frenchman - I've got nothing against the french but the top 14 is in many ways emblematic of everything that is wrong with modern rugby.
@kybone and J_HDK
You make some fair points but I think that you ignore the fact that the domestic competitions in the SH are often lacking in top players, which is a result of the onus placed on the rugby championship and super rugby - the quality is still OK but it was probably a factor in the demise of Otago. In this way the SH also pay for the way they've organised their seasons.
J_HDK - 'top 14 reduced to top 12' - forgive me for being cynical but this is never going to happen, for financial reasons. This is one of the reasons why it's difficult to take anyone from the top 14 seriously - they'll whine about the schedule (despite having vast squads of top quality internationals, many of whom don't play internationals anymore and so are free anyway) but there's no chance they'll ever help out by reducing the amount of (increasingly dull) rugby played.
Jesus man, cheer up, life's not that bad.
Posted 20:44 06th June 2012
when it finally suits them... they finally concede (as the SH has been saying for over a decade) that the calendar needs better alignment. As usual it is the pragmatism and sense of the SH vs the politics and self-interest of the NH
Posted 20:09 06th June 2012
I understand your point
I completely forgot to mention the LV cup should be done away with too. It doesn't add anything considering the HCup exists.
26 AP + 9 H Cup + 5 6N + 7 RWC = 47
That still leaves a number of off weeks and naturally there should be squad rotation in any professional set up to help maintain players.
Posted 19:24 06th June 2012
J_HDK i don't think your suggestion can be done tbh. A player for a Prem club could have played a possible 39 club fixtures in a season, with the minimum possible number of fixtures being 32. Add to that the international fixtures which usually total somewhere in the region of 13 per season, or a possible 20 in World Cup year. Thats a minimum of 45 games per season rising to a possible 59 games per season! Obviously the minimum total is possible but could the players cope with that number of games year after year. I think not. The maximum number of possible fixtures just does not physically fit into a season. And just to note, i haven't factored in things like pre season friendlies, random baabaas games, and lions tours. So for me the competitions have to overlap because the players need a break to be worked in somewhere.
Posted 17:32 06th June 2012
Ultimately Bouscatel is right. The entire calendar needs to be corrected to coincide better between NH and SH.
Money in rugby is generated by the domestic leagues. The international matches might make people happy and be a nice showpiece... but they are not big revenue generators.
Step 1. "Traditional" June and November Test windows must be abandoned!
Step 2. Top 14 Must be reduced to Top 12
Step 3. 6N and RC must be played at the same time, in such a way that will enable the Arg players in NH clubs to compete in the RC. Ideally split into two parts to avoid too much disruption to domestic seasons.
Step 4. Have a 7 week gap for when the RWC is to be scheduled.. and the years it is not on.. international tours can be done.
I have a great spreadsheet outlining all this. (nerd) It can be done. It just requires the will to do it.
Posted 15:54 06th June 2012
Apparently England and France are also complaining about the Heineken Cup as well, only because they are getting beaten in it of late, there were no complaints when they were winning it...reminds me of the time a few years ago when England tried to lure France to join them in resigning from the 6 Nations because they thought their rugby was so superior to the other 4 nations
Posted 15:47 06th June 2012
typical response from an eu ingrate , talk to the man in 10 years time when his when his country cannor afford his pension - go the EU destroyers of the west
Posted 15:29 06th June 2012
would it not make more sense to move the Rugby Championship back a few weeks to give the SH a proper lead in time too..... Rugby World Cup should take dominence over all and yes maybe even a Summer world cup should be brought in with almost set dates like the soccer world cup
Posted 14:42 06th June 2012
Herbman - you might want to check your facts there buddy, Ireland have BEATEN South Africa 3 of the last 4 times the teams have played and the SA victory was a dramatic 2 point victory where given another 5 minutes Ireland would probably have won given the momentum they had.... So yes, in recent history you have been beaten regularely by Ireland.
Posted 14:33 06th June 2012