Not impressed: O'Neill
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ARU boss John O'Neill has responded to NZ coach Steve Hansen's claims that Australia are stealing players as being "insulting and ill-informed".
Hansen made the assertion after the world champions' 18-18 draw with the Wallabies on Saturday in which New Zealand-born centre Mike Harris kicked five penalties for Australia.
The All Blacks coach says Australia should concentrate on developing their own talent, rather than trying to build depth by "pinching" New Zealand players.
O'Neill said New Zealand should put their own house in order before criticising Australia, adding "the comments from the All Blacks coach are insulting, ill-informed.
"I would not even want to guess how many players born in the South Pacific islands have worn the All Blacks jersey," he said.
Comments
Trader2 says...
At least Hansen had some factual basis. So some 6.99% of AB's have been born overseas or 2.68% born in the islands, as@golden_statenba says the majority of these came to NZ as children. Love to see the figures for Oz, suspect they could be interesting. If you move to the existing squads then 9 Wannabies (let¿s make it 10 as Kepu learnt how to play in NZ) were born o/s, so that is 25% of their squad. As for NZ well Owen Franks is it really. Facts don¿t lie do they Mr O¿Neill, and proves you need be well informed at all times. This is however a silly argument but it is the one that many including Mr O¿Neill, Greg Clarke of Fox Sports and the other ill-informed are perpetuating. The real "poaching" story is the number of Kiwi's listed in the Aussie S15 teams, I will count them if someone wants me to.
Posted 12:56 23rd October 2012
Ferdie says...
Think Hansen should stick to his job - coach.
Player eligibility is for NZRU administration to lobby IRB if they wanted a change, not a matter for a coach. Entitled to his opinions, but I don't see him as being spokesperson for NZRU.
Classic timing though has to be the other PR thread of Glasgow signing Scotland-eligible Sean Maitland from Hansen's old NZ province, Canterbury. Just in time for next RWC, another fine NZ product from NZ U-19, NZ U-20 and NZ Maori.
Posted 12:01 23rd October 2012
jmanngod says...
there is a huge difference between a family shifting to NZ and the children playing for the ABs after being raised and schooled in NZ, and, Aussies S15 teams going to NZ taking a player and then giving them a national start. There is no comparison at all. Hansen's point is a valid one. If Oz don't have enough players for 5 teams (or even 4 it seems) then they should drop some teams until their player base can cope.
Posted 11:28 23rd October 2012
ArmchairGeneral says...
This is such a pointless debate. People migrate or we'd all be African.
Posted 11:15 23rd October 2012
cuw3100 says...
LOL Does JON know where Palu, Timani, Genia, Gregan, TPN, et al came from? Where QC or DP is from ? There is a difference between living in a country for majority of the years which makes the player a domicile and a player who moves for a specific purpose (like Harris). Will the same be said of Ben Botika if he plays for NZ in future? Or how about Josh Stauss who wants a second coming in England, or Issac Boss or so many others who moved overseas because of lack of opportunities at home.
The sad part IMHO is the number of players lost to the PI teams becoz either OZ or NZ play them in one or two tests and then discard, which makes them ineligiable for their home country.
Maybe IRB should allow such players to play for the smaller country even after playing for bigger country in tests. At the end of the day NZ and SA have a large crop of quality players. Due to financial reasons many players move to greener pastures. What needs attention is that NZ SA and other big nations can survive even with the loss of a few players. But smaller nations cannot and need all the help.
Also it will help the smaller nations to put up a fight , which itself will attract more spectators and a fanbase.
Posted 11:06 23rd October 2012
passtheball says...
Aus and SA have too many S15 teams - they cannot sustain 5 top level teams. Aus does not have enough players and SA players head off overseas to greener pastures. NZ players in teams like Japan and Italy is one thing but playing for rivals like England and Aus is quite another. The IRB needs to monitor closely as its already become a joke with young Samoans, for example, saying they, as kids, have dreamed of playing for countries they had not yet heard of.
Posted 10:55 23rd October 2012
Webbie says...
Touché Golden Statenba
Posted 10:49 23rd October 2012
Tubolardy says...
golden_statenba - what about John Gallagher, played 15 in 87 RWC, born and raised in London, went to my school, only went to NZ as an adult, and qualified because he was in the ploice force..
kusada - I can think of one notable exception Frank Bunce - played for Western Samoa and then the NZAB's..
I'm English, so I'm the last person to criticise imported players, I'm just saying every major nation does it, either blatently or through scholorships to promising youngsters etc.. So few unions or coaches should take the moral high ground.
Posted 10:45 23rd October 2012
philipjfry says...
This is a pretty redundant and inconsequential debate. I'd rather hear O'Neill's views on Bryce Lawrence.
Posted 10:32 23rd October 2012
rugby_rockstar says...
Its kinda fun because we now know that if you stop the all blacks, not only have you gone toe to toe with the very best side in the world but you will probably get to see their head coach throw his toys out the pram too!!! BRILLIANT!!!!
As for John O'Neill, he's probably just pleased to have something to deflect the attention away from his ref fixing efforts at the last rugby world cup. Didn't the mafia use intimidation to nobble jockeys and boxers in the same way as Johnny boy went after Bryce Lawence??? They both use the same ploy. Is that fair and just??? Why is he still in office? Why are the IRB and ARU turning a blind eye to lobbying??? And thats a polite term for it. Rugby Union is unbelieveably poor sometimes.
Posted 10:27 23rd October 2012
Phill_Moore says...
O'Neil is full of it. The criticism is true, he knows it, and the only thing he can do is whinge and accuse the other party of doing the same.
This is an admission of guilt from O'Neil, plain and simple.
Spot on golden_statenba.
For the record, I think Hansen is not completely wrong, and I don't agree with adult players switching countries at will, but it's an opinion, if they follow the rules then good luck to them making the most out of their careers...
If a family moves for work or other reasons and their children are coached and produced as players by their new country, then no problem. O'Neil, off course "forgets" this and compares recruiting grown players with developing children to become players. And he thinks we'll buy that, LOL!
Posted 10:17 23rd October 2012
hybrid187 says...
Whats this guy on about ? Plain and simple ... there are loads of Kiwis that have learned their respective sports and played in NZ, just for an Aussie team to poach them and in some cases represent Australia nationally.
This is the simple, yet inconvenient truth for Australian sport. They just cant admit to it because they actually have 20 million + more people to choose from. Look whats happening with all these Kiwis getting invited to play State of Origin, the Aussies know once you represent Qld or NSW they are only eligible for the Aussie national side.
Its pathetic on Aussies behalf, plain and simple. There is NO defending this.
Posted 10:07 23rd October 2012
Sincero says...
haaaaaa the irony
Posted 10:06 23rd October 2012
2eyedkiwi says...
I thought O'Neill was dumped?
Posted 10:06 23rd October 2012
qwerty says...
Kiwis have been wearing accusations of poaching for many years from all quarters, most of it rubbish. Look at all the crying and indignation when the boot's on the other foot.
Posted 09:58 23rd October 2012
7ton says...
Was a stupid and very ill timed comment for Hansen to make to begin with and while O'Neill thought he had to or was pressurised into by the media to make a response it was ill informed, dishonest and a equally stupid comment for O'Neil to make in return
Posted 09:54 23rd October 2012
Centre12 says...
Surely the solution is for the RFU to to change the rules, i.e. this 3 year residency rule is a complete joke. I personally think you should only be allowed to represent a country that
A- you were born in
B- your parents were born (not grandparents)
C- that you have developed your rugby in, i.e. through the school boy age group system if you or your parents were not born in that country
Even increasing the residency rule to 5 years would be a no no in my books
Posted 09:52 23rd October 2012
Trader2 says...
OMG come on down, another pratt, at least Hansen had some factual basis So some 6.99% of AB's have been born overseas or 2.68% born in the islands, as@golden_statenba says the majority of these came to NZ as children. Love to see the figures for Oz, suspect they could be interesting. What a complete DH and this from a man who managed to waste thw 2003 WC profits for the chaos he now leaves behind. Something about cowards and Australian rugby at the moment.
Posted 09:34 23rd October 2012
Trinats2 says...
hellovanite:
"Seriously though Mike Harris is a Kiwi through and through" with Aussie Grandparents.
Still trying to work out why they went from Aus to NZ ????
Posted 09:19 23rd October 2012
Ramage says...
Once again John O'Neill has put his foot in it. First Hansen was wrong to say what he did but I understand what he was getting at. He is right in one respect which I will allude to later. However no matter what he says and how he puts it it comes over as sour grapes and doesnt make him look good.
O.Neill then naturally has ton have a jibe back because Hansen hit a raw nerve which was the lack of development within the game i Australia since O'Neill returned as CEO after he was eased out by the former Board. He has so run down the game in OZ that the current Board have asked him to go earlier than what he had planeed and many of us will say good riddance. Naturally to cover his own performmance or lack of it he joins the Stephen Jones lie that we have poached players from the Pacific Islands. golden_statenba in his post has put that to rest as NZ was responsible for their rugby development.
Where O'Neill falls on his face is the passion he fought for the extra Oz team who went up against a Sth African franchise. He won the fight but are they developing extra OZ talent, or are they as Hansen rightly points out getting there players from NZ . Last year Australian franchises were very poor and clustered around the bottom. Even their play off representative was their not because of merit but because of geography and every saffa is fully aware of that. It was O'neill who wangled the conrference system past the weak administrators in NZ and Sa as he had abolished the year long Australian national competition over financial worries and decided to do it on the cheap though swinging on the coat tails of Super rugby. This man has been a disaster for world and Oz rugby. He is a disgrace he has taken OZ rugby backwards.The fact he has been given his cards speaks volumes of his total incompetence. The sooner he leaves the better. Hit the road Jack and dont you come back no more.
Posted 09:18 23rd October 2012