Pick a country, any country!
This week we will mostly be concerning ourselves with the three-year rule, the need for a single global disciplinary body and the coming around of the gone around...
We are not entirely sure what has suddenly brought the issue to prominence as it's been a bugbear for some for yonks, but the issue of the three-year residency rule now needs to be looked at as a matter of urgency.
England's call-up of Mako Vunipola appears to have finally cracked the ring-pull on the can of worms, but there have been disgruntled utterings for donkey's years about New Zealand's tribal gathering, as well as Australia's.
The English would appear to have been the most brazen about it all, should the accusations levelled at them by Fiji coach Inoke Mali prove to be founded. The French are supposedly not far behind.
Most disturbing is the accusation that the unions and clubs are luring teenagers across the globe to their academies accusations levelled at them by Fiji coach Inoke Mali; and with the networks among the ranks of the pros, not to mention the money available, growing by the day, the whole process is not going to stop unless better regulated.
But the question always to be asked is not if the three-year rule could be altered to protect the interests of tier two - we know the answer to that one and always have - but how.
Well, we certainly think you could change the rule to only permit people allowed passports of their adopted country to play for that country. That way you stop people heading over in their early twenties - such as Mouritz Botha - and using up the spots in a national squad to which they simply have no right to, spots for which born citizens would give their eye teeth to be filling.
However, it would also allow the flexibility for someone like Toby Faletau, who has been in Wales since the age of seven and is now naturalised, to play for the country he has grown up in. Obviously there's a conflict of interest for people born in a country but who have never lived there, but maybe here you could invoke a three-year residency clause?
That's one suggestion. We are sure there are others. But one thing's for sure, when you have - as Male claims - people born to parents of country A, in country A, and growing up in country A all with realisable ambitions of playing for country B, you have a system which is doing nothing whatsoever to protect the interests of the smaller nations who work hard to.
You also have national identities for sale, naive teenagers being whisked across the world to a future far from certain and places in a national squad at the very highest level up for sale rather than for privilege. We don't think that is what international rugby should be all about...
Both Andy Hazell and Sisa Koyamaibole are going to be weighing up their actions this week after copping 14 and 12-week bans respectively for their transgressions in the Amlin Challenge Cup.
But it's barely imaginable that biting is given a lesser punishment than Hazell's furious assault on a Mont-de-Marsan player. Hazell lost control for sure, but biting someone is just savagery - surely given the dangers involved in a human bite, that's is almost as serious as gouging?
The disciplinary inconsistency problem is not going to go away until someone wakes up and realises that there needs to be some form of single independent body examining these cases globally. Admittedly, there would be logistical problems in getting players to hearings, but these are also the days of Skype and a myriad of other media creating conference calls.
In one fell swoop you rid the disciplinary verdicts of the obvious manoeuvres which frequently contrive to allow miscreants to be available for all their important games, you also let players know a precise and consistent precedent, something currently glaringly absent from the system...
It was amusing listening to the wailing from Premier Rugby Chief Mark McCafferty this week as he twigged that there had been a meeting of the nations and clubs involved in the ERC restructuring wrangle without his presence.
"It was a flawed attempt to divide and rule and it failed," said McCafferty.
And your television deal for a tournament not sanctioned by anyone present at this offensive secret meeting you are so upset about was what, precisely?
Loose pass compiled by Richard Anderson
Comments
Rosbif says...
.....in the sense that we French feel, rather too often, that we are the victims of unfairness at the hands of an Anglo-Saxon world, and a lack of, what's the word?.....justice.
then again, i believe we French may have invented the term "conspiracy theory" hehehe.
for the record, though, do you have any nagging thoughts about when the French may last have been on the wrong end? People talk about Durban 1995 semi. Or Paris 1991 QF. Did you see those games? What were your thoughts at the time? realising that is difficult to separate from your thoughts now...
thks and kind rgds as always
R.
Posted 20:26 01st November 2012
Rosbif says...
@new_j4a, I can't wait to see you, one day, go into bat for the French!! There's a decent bottle of wine in it for you mon ami.....
Posted 20:20 01st November 2012
7ton says...
Willy
Interesting article but very inaccurate in parts as rugby_beak points out
Posted 09:45 01st November 2012
new_j4a says...
I am in favour of keeping the current system. The main criteria for me is that I want to watch first class rugby: so if the 3rd or 4th string players from the tier 1 nations end up playing for England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales, etc that just helps them be more competitive and produces better rugby. As far as Fiji, Tonga, and Samoa are concerned, their economies don't support tier 1 rugby. We should fix that problem first. In the meantime, they can be proud of what they have contributed to tier 1 nations on the rugby field. All this nationalistic stuff is a load of crap. The Irish team (my national team) is bolstered by a huge chunk of the U.K. and would be wallowing below Portugal if it were not so.
@jontheref legally, 40 years; culturally, never. Might you be confusing personality with allegiance or even a sense of fairness? I have gone to bat for Wales on this forum and am certainly not Welsh, same for NZ, never even been there. Most of my tirades have been against ref bashing, not in favour of any nationality, whatever that means.
Posted 09:19 01st November 2012
craigsman says...
That's supposed to be 'final answer to ALL cases'. Doh
Posted 07:04 01st November 2012
jontheref says...
melkdave said
"Would it also mean that Ulster born players cant play for Ireland ,as Ulster is also part of the UK and totally seperate from the Irish republic"
There are 9 counties of Ulster, 6 are in Northern Ireland.
new_j4a
Since when have you not been SA?
Why all the bleats when anyone has an opinion on anything Sth African?
Or is this one of your multiple personalities????
Posted 20:15 31st October 2012
craigsman says...
Willy - read the article and although interesting I there doesn't seem to be much in the way of facts to back it up (same as the above really). I'm not sure which players England and France are supposed to have 'stolen'.
On the nationality issue my passport says 'British' so that isn't the final answer to cases. I think a combination of blood tie and residency is the answer (and I have no real complaints about the current situation). Not where your mum happened to be when you were born.
Posted 19:37 31st October 2012
willy says...
Worth a read, Alan quinlans views on this matter.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1031/1224325938290.html
Posted 16:50 31st October 2012
DrDeath says...
@Jeff
Tiaan Strauss actually captained the SA SENIOR team, then went on to play in RWC for Australia-even bigger joke I suggest!
@melkdave
Ulster players can always represent "Ireland" on passport issue. Anyone born on the island of Ireland is entitled to apply for an Irish passport whether in the six counties or not. Obviously some choose not to, as is their right but all qualify so your argument is slightly specious!
Posted 10:52 31st October 2012
new_j4a says...
@scum sincero who says " farm the land they'd stolen from the Maoris" Really? We Irish stole the Emerald Isle from the Maoris? First I heard of it. You'd have thought we'd be better at rugby with that as our heritage? I really wish I had studied history with you at Dublin City University. Anyway, it so nice to see you correcting your own use of the ENGLISH language for a change. Does it irk you when you think that we Irish don't really have our own mother tongue anymore? And every thought we have (not many for you, I know, but still?) is formed and framed in the language of our betters from across the Irish sea? BTW, there are still several major errors in you post: a fused sentence and at least one sentence fragment. But it would be nice for all of us if you practiced your borrowed mother tongue in private and left this site....to rugby?
Posted 06:58 31st October 2012
7ton says...
Meldave
re your earlier post I think that Vunipola first came to Wales at 7/8 because his father played for a Welsh club and not a English RL side.
Also he is Tongan and not Fijian
Posted 02:00 31st October 2012
isthatrightref says...
@ melkdave... obviously they'll still have their home-grown players + 1st & 2nd-gen expats to choose from, but both groups will diminish in numbers as time goes on... I'm already uncomfortable with guys qualifying immediately for countries they've had no previous relationship with upon discovering that their dear old gran was born there: extending that to great-grandparents would only worsen the situation esp as you can't have one rule for Tomasi & another for Thomas, the courts wouldn't allow it?
Again, don't profess to have an answer but hope that several someones in several somewheres incl obviously the PI are working on it & come up with something fair & workable before the strides Samoa & Tonga have taken over the last 20-odd years come to nought. If they can't make the transition from T2 to T1 what hope does anyone else have?
Posted 21:39 30th October 2012
new_j4a says...
@scum sincero. I have never been to NZ though I consider it an honour that you think I am a citizen of that great rugby nation. I am a passport carrying citizen of one of the minor rugby pseudo nations, a minnow if you like: I am Irish by heritage and by citizenship. My ancestors are buried in Cork. So I am the real Irish, unlike you (being as you are what you would call a "West Englander " in a slur dating back to your shameful fascist past). Have you got your refund back from DCU?
Posted 17:37 30th October 2012
new_j4a says...
@DrDeath, I just looked up Fowler and Strunk. To my surprise, you are correct for British English, but not for American English. Well done Trinity....far better than DCU! Since you are located in Dublin with Scum Sincero, do you think you could teach him about gerunds....and give him the odd whack behind the ear when he forgets how much we Irish owe the English...and now the French and Germans?
Posted 16:53 30th October 2012
Jeff says...
Clyde Rathbone captained the South African u21 team at the junior world cup and went on to represent Australia at test level..tell how that isn't a joke?
Posted 16:53 30th October 2012
melkdave says...
@Sincero
Perhaps you should really read all the comments on a thread before again spouting nonsense,and insults against people Spelling isnt really revalent ,as long as people can understand what is being writen .Myself i have mild dyslexia so my spelling at times is atrosious to say the least ,and unfortuatly for me spell check doesnt work on site I too went to uni and law school,and still managed to pass with honours .But i know my spelling isnt topnotch.Also grammer in english is not something people carry on with after school ect,and theres so many different rules its almost impossible to keep them straight anyway.Now back to you reading the posts people where commenting on if being a passport holder of a country could solve the present mess concerning overseas players playing for countries not of their birth.It was pointed out ,that if that came to be ,then Ulster born players couldnt then play for Ireland ,as you cant jhave exceptions to a rule ,otherwise it makes for a uneven playing field .Also as usual youve offered nothing to the debate except insults .If you cant offer anything to a debate perhaps you really shouldnt post anything at all.Even agreeing or just disagreeing with a comment would be more than you usually offer atm.
Posted 16:12 30th October 2012
DrDeath says...
@new_j4a
the "period", or full stop, as we Irish prefer to call it, appears INSIDE the quotation marks only if the quotation includes the end of the sentence being quoted.
Otherwise it quite rightly appears OUTSIDE the said quotation marks!
Trinity actually! Lol
Posted 13:22 30th October 2012
kybone says...
How can you hold up Vunipola as an example of someone who has flouted the rules of international eligability, and then suggest that the Faletau case is more acceptable- The two cases are almost identical. Any wonder why some people seem to think that there is an anti-english bias developing on PR. As for the Male comments- there is nothing to back them up at all. There are no Fijian players in the England squad or the Saxons squad, and i am not aware of any fijians that are or will become eligable for England in the near future. I have had a problem with the likes of hape and vainikolo being picked by England, but the vast majority of players playing international rugby for an adopted nation have lived there since childhood.
Posted 13:13 30th October 2012
Sincero says...
@j4asheep bothering yokel, the 'infinitive form of the verb "bleat"'? haaa... which language are you trying to speak? I love it when morons attempt to pass themselves off as being anything other than morons (you're a moron, by the way). The quotation mark comes after the 'period' (full-stop?) at the end of the sentence? Only if you're ending the sentence there, Noam Chomsky! For if you're quoting, rather than writing dialogue, that's not really applicable, is it?
Q. Seriously though... how does a Kiwi find a sheep in long grass?
As for Ireland cf. the U.K., and your ingenious musings- you've failed to understand the concept of nationhood, I'm afraid. However, I'm not here to educate the unwashed masses. I would, however, point out that in the position of dominance the national flag of your pseudo-nation has positioned neatly the Union Jack in the canton. Your Head of State is Queen Elizabeth II of England. You're just a wee, backwards colony of London that nobody cares about at all anymore, whence the English sent the most obtusely dim Scottish Presbyterian heretical to farm the land they'd stolen from the Maoris, and to introduce prohibition and lead such a wholesome, God-fearing life, while oddly not prohibiting themselves from fiddling with the odd ovine on a cold Saturday night. So, considering that, in addition to your general ignorance being so apparent on all topics, it's really quite unsurprising that a Kiwi would fail to understand nationality, not having one himself.
A. URRESUSTIBLE!!!!
Posted 12:39 30th October 2012
melkdave says...
@Isthatrightref
Thats a bad picture you paint for the future of Pacific island rugby my friend,and i pray it never happens.But your right as the 1st wave of PI immegrants grow older,and their decendnts are born elsewhere ,the pool of potential players for them becomes smaller .It would also be wrong to have one set of rules for teir 1 countries and annother for teir 2 ect ,as that obviously is open to abuse and limits said teir 2 countries in their ambitions (i regard the PI already to be teir1 countries ).The only solution i see is for the blood tie qualfication to be extended to great grand parents which might work better in the long run.At least for the PI countries.and for players with only single caps to be eliagibly after a suitable stand down period say 5 yrs which i think the residancy rule should also be .It would stop countries capping playes just to deny others i hope .
Posted 12:33 30th October 2012