A different world: Rugby in Lithuania
This week we will mostly be concerning ourselves with competition integrity, the validity of records and a cheap shot from the onlookers...
So how's this: having battled and slogged your way through a season in which you had your top-flight status unceremoniously and unfairly taken away from you, with players considering their options, the best heading off on loan or off full stop and the bean-counters sniffing around the corporate accounts, you manage to scrap your way through to the national cup semi-final, twice beating one particular team on the way.
You are up against this particular team in the semi-final and approach it with understandable confidence but then realise that the team you are up against has changed since the last time you faced it. Gone are some of promising youngsters/grizzled veterans/journeymen (delete as applicable) and in their place are some - admittedly somewhat battle-weary but still - world-class players of global renown.
It's a different playing field now and one on which, despite your very best efforts, you lose on. Would you not be just a little bit miffed at the way the field suddenly got skewed though?
It's the scenario that faced the Lions this weekend past in the Currie Cup, one that faces at least one team every year in that competition these days.
SARU needs, in this coming off-season, to have a long, hard think about its internal structures. Heyneke Meyer has not gone ahead and said it publicly but it's no secret he is desperate to get his international players centrally contracted and into a system whereby their workload can be better managed.
Meanwhile the big provinces in SA continue to master the art of scraping their way through enough of the Currie Cup safe in the knowledge that a phalanx of Springboks will return to the fray just in time to ensure the old order is maintained. The ridiculous new truncated format - where it is feasible you could lose more than half of your games and still make a semi-final - simply facilitates the internal ring-fencing.
It - and the absence of a salary cap - makes for dishonest competition, one in which the final showpieces will be watched by big local crowds, but one in which the general level of enthusiasm from outside has been pretty meagre, bar the faithful hard core.
Surely it cannot escape the wit of those in charge that central contracts would create both a fresher Springbok team and a Currie Cup where competitive integrity would be paramount. It's so important.
So it turns out that New Zealand didn't make it. But if they had, would they be the holders of the new record for most Test victories or would it simply be an extension of their existing record?
It was an interesting - at times colourful - debate that raged for a good half-hour with a colleague this week: is the current record of 18 consecutive Test victories held by Lithuania the valid record or is the record of 17, jointly held by South Africa and New Zealand, the real record because of the calibre of the teams they had to beat along the way?
Lithuania beat several teams ranked above them at the time. When they started their run they were ranked 73rd in the world, but by the time they finished four years later they were 37th and were regularly beating teams a good 20 spots down the list. Some of the games - including the triumphant 77-5 battering of Serbia to set the record - were simply statistical mismatches from start to finish.
Meanwhile, both All Blacks and Springboks were, of course, regularly playing and replaying their peers, often under heavy pressure. During their run, South Africa only once played a team ranked outside the world's top ten. The All Blacks' run included a Lions tour.
Yet you also have to consider they had the luxury of picking their best available teams every time, with every need catered for. The Lithuanians, hardly among the world's rich, were sent off to places as diverse as Serbia, Armenia and Norway, often at huge personal sacrifice from the players, often staying in meagre accommodation and playing on distinctly average playing pitches. Moreover, they had to keep that run going for four long years, with huge pauses in between matches and training schedules.
Different worlds. Comparable records? The argument never really reached a satisfactory conclusion. Over to you...
Finally - and to give you a good laugh - this little gem emerged from the popular press in the UK this week.
Sam Allardyce, for those not in the know, is a soccer manager who has rarely been shy of a histrionic tantrum or a level of expenditure on single players totalling more than the Premiership's season-long salary cap.
He seems to feel that we egg-chasers have an axe to grind over soccer players.... that we are jealous of the soccer life, that we....
It's too sumptuous for words really. Have a read here and we welcome your thoughts below...
Loose Pass compiled by Richard Anderson
Comments
Norm says...
Allardyce have a point? Yes there is a bit a of thuggery in the game and it is less than desirable that it is there, but take 2 teams charge them up and send them out on a field in an intense physical contest, then a little close to the knuckle thuggery comes out, quelle surprise. It is how the players and supporters react to it that sets the fgamres apart. The following somes it up for me:
Approx 7 years ago watching Bristol at the memorial ground and saw the only dive by a rugby player I have ever seen. Andy Gomersall by the way ( again Quelle surprise) he duped the ref and got his penalty. Ref clearly suspected but had made his call and stuck with it. Fair play! Within 10 minutes, Mr Gomersall got stuck with something else round about the short rib, complained to ref and I heard him say ' think you have to accept the rub of the green sometines Andy'. To Gormlessal's credit he shurgged his shoulders and accepted it.
Now contrast that the recent behaviour of Terry, Suarez and Tevez. Sam your in the right game mate, dry your eyes!
Posted 17:23 22nd October 2012
philipjfry says...
Allardyce can f-k right off. I'd like to pelt him and his precious ladyboys with bricks. Now, where did I put that psychotherapist's number. . .
Posted 17:03 22nd October 2012
andy1000 says...
Lithuania won 18 consecutive IRB sanctioned tests so the record is theirs, just like Michael Phelps is the most successful Olympian. Of course it's subjective and doesn't make them the best but they have the record. Phelps had an array of events to enter and Lithuania had some weaker teams to play.
Posted 16:26 22nd October 2012
melkdave says...
Lithuanias record is a valid record ,as it was like against like,it doesnt matter how low they are in the IRB rankings,It was 2 international teams playing a test match ,enough said.
I also found the Currie cup very disappionting this season,the new format is just wrong iimo,one week the Bulls are in danger of playing arelegation match,and the following week they are playing a semi-final.I just hope they return to the old format asap.We in the U may laugh ad gigle at the RFU at times,but they do manage the game very well ,and stardards just keep going up year in year out.SARU by comparision are not only a kjoke ,but they run the game very poorly in camparision,as shown by their recent record,and the declining standards/skills of SA players and clubs..
Agree with others here ,its the antics of footballers and their play acting which gets peoples dander up Roling on the floor over nothing and swarming around the referee like bees to honey to influance his decision just wrong full stop.
Posted 16:21 22nd October 2012
chubbylugs says...
re currie cup - the danger of diluting the currie cup by removing the elite players is creating a second vodacom cup which is already played out at the start of the SH season. You either need to intergrate the top players more to the CC or remove them completely and abolish the vodacom cup (may have changed name now) and create a longer CC season
re sam alladyce. the thing he fails to recognise is that rugby players invariable walk off the pitch and shake hands. many footballers refuse handshakes and do their dirty laundry very much in the public eye
Posted 14:50 22nd October 2012
celticspirit says...
Record is record. It is another matter if you are actually asking who the better team are / were. It is obvious that no one would claim that Lithuania have a better Rugby team than the ABs or Boks. But again, that does not take the record away from them.
However, I find it all the more frustrating that Carter missed that last-second drop goal attempt, because "by rights" (which obvioulsy do not exist), this record should be the current All Blacks'. If they had beaten AUS, they would have gone on to hammer Scotland and Italy and thus passed Lithuania anyway. Probably beaten Wales and England, too, and then probably the NH-team next June as well, to make it a real impressive record of over 20 consecutive victories an there would be no more discussions needed as to how valid the record is.
It just seems stupid to be playing this absolutely superfluous 3rd Bledisloe Cup game, anyway, and it is not just my frustration as a Scotsman speaking...
Frustration as a Scotsman because it would have been so much more acceptable to get hammered 48-0 (last time I was in the stadium for a SCO-NZ test) by the then holders of the world record of consecutive victories. Now we will just get hammered Edinburgh-style by yet another All Blacks team, one of many (great ones, but not the record holders). I will hate the November tests...
Posted 14:00 22nd October 2012
Sincero says...
Best club rugby competition in the world has just finished round 2, and gets not a mention... again. *slow clap* What a site.
Posted 13:43 22nd October 2012
LondonWasp says...
correct me if i am wrong but wasn't NZ record different to that of Lithuania's because NZ record was how many test wins as a number 1 ranked team. lithuania's record is simply how many test won- two very different records...
Posted 13:32 22nd October 2012
LondonWasp says...
i find it funny that in the vote of 2794 people a huge 93.41% said that rugby players behave better than footballers lol
Posted 13:12 22nd October 2012
bad_robot says...
Lithuania holds the record - plain and simple. It was like vs like the majority of the time. NZ also had a couple of easy matches in their last 16 match run at the RWC. Would be interested to know if NZ sent an official "test" team (but in reality would be an 'A' team) to tour some of Europe lesser known countries, whether it would be seen as an act of good will and expansion of the code, or a way in increasing their win tally.
Allardyce is deflecting criticism (must have been talking to Hansen this week). @kybone has hit it on the head - its the childish antics that people hate about the footballers, the cheap shots, the oscar worthy acting. Yes rugby has 'thuggery', it is a game where big people try to stop each other. But any cheap shot is very much frowned upon, by the public and the judiciary - just look at the Greyling and Higganbottom incidents for recent examples. The issue with the football is that the players know that the worst that can happen is a comparatively small fine as opposed to being rubbed out for several games.
Posted 12:33 22nd October 2012
APV1 says...
Lithuania have the record. There can be no question about it. The fact that they're ranked so low means that they play teams who are also down the rankings. But don't sully their success.
Allardyce is obviously a prat. I don't follow football personally, but some of my friends do and I know a couple of professional players. The game's boring - if people think the AP's boring, try watching 90 minutes of not-a-lot, with maybe only one or two points being scored. Dullness personified. But that's me.
I read the comments with interest and see that most people agree that his sentiment is wrong. I particularly like the comment about the soccer players crowding the ref and abusing him vs the rugby players calling him "Sir." and respectfully listening to him. That respect follows through the game - the fans sit together, the players clap the opposition through the tunnel and everyone shares a beer or two. A slight chap with a whistle commands the immediate respect of the towering locks who've just been throwing handbags at each other.
Whilst we all know the citing decisions have sometimes been a bit weird, they are dealt with. The "Gougerie" incident being an obvious example of one that wasn't, but otherwise most are picked up and addressed.
Until the over-paid poncy pre-madonnas stop prancing around and whinging when their hair gets out of place, I'll stick to a proper game thanks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC-H2wXK4T4
Posted 12:13 22nd October 2012
kinsman says...
Campeses tally also includes tries scored against sides that other IRB nations wouldn't declare as tests, eg. A hat trick against North Korea. It's the same problem in football where I think Australia held or still holds the record for the largest win against one of the Samoas. Germany or Italy would never play the smaller nations and so are unlikely to ever hold the record. The criteria are clear, to defeat another sanctioned international side. The record belongs to Lithuania just as the try scoring one belongs to Ohata.
Posted 11:31 22nd October 2012
Phill_Moore says...
A record is a record, and Lithuania has it. They earned it on the pitch, in difficult conditions, good on them! Period.
Having said that, the ABs are still undefeated and maybe they go on to establish a different record, for most undefeated tests in a row. No mean feat either even if it includes a draw or two...
What's the current undefeated record?
Posted 10:29 22nd October 2012
olepete says...
The record belongs to Lithuania. But another AB record came to an end: the number of consecutive matches in which they scored a try; I can't remember the number, but it was large.
Posted 10:11 22nd October 2012
NHsaints says...
The Lithuanian Record stands and the Ab's haven't been defeated yet in 16 tests so we're still waiting for their first defeat since playing the boks in SA in summer 2011.
Posted 08:55 22nd October 2012
kybone says...
On the Allardyce thing- I suppose he does have a point, but only to a small extent. The reason footballers get so much stick is because of their, often, petulant attitude, their childish antics, the feigning of injury, their harrassing of the officials, and their apparent obliviousness to the way things are in the real world. Its these things that people can't abide about footballers, it's got nothing to do with thuggery! I agree that things like eye gouging are terrible and need removing from the game, but in general the 'violence' on the rugby pitch has a certain integrity to it as its just 2 (or more) blokes taking their frustrations out on each other. Not a cything tackle from behind, or a cheap elbow in a crowd,or racist name calling.And after the event the players involved don't role around on the floor, as though they've been hit with a hammer, in an attempt to get their fellow player sent off.
On the winning run point- The 18 games in a row by Lithuania is a genuine record imo. Yes they played against poor teams but they were teams that were at the same level at the time. It's like the try scoring record. As far as i know it still belongs to Daisuke Ohata of Japan, but this is often overlooked and Campese is considered to be the record holder, because Ohata scored a lot of his tries in RWC Qualifiers against sides like HK and Korea. Wrong imo.
Posted 08:11 22nd October 2012