Lessons to learn: England
As we do after a major tournament, we look at the state of affairs in each of the competing nations. Next up, we have the nearly men from England.
You're only as good as your last game is a notion that has been dug up over how this English team's campaign has panned out. Harsh? Maybe.
Had they won at the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff, there is little doubt that the English press would have been falling in love with Stuart Lancaster's troops, possibly tagging them as serious challengers for RWC glory on home soil in 2015. They lost and so the boot was, as it is so often, put in to a few players.
There was talk surrounding this squad that a defeat such as this was needed for it to develop into a World Cup-winning XV. Tough losses builds a player's character, especially coming so far away from the major tournament, and in this early stage of their progression one agrees with it not being all negative.
Even Wales prop Adam Jones has jumped to the defence of England's under-fire props, Joe Marler and Dan Cole, who are still young in front-row years. Given a few more seasons at the coal face - and the return to fitness of Alex Corbisiero - and England will boast a strong crop of hardened scrummagers.
Their locks have arguably been the strongest in the competition in terms of consistency as a pair so that is taken care of moving forward. However, the absence of number eight Ben Morgan for most of the championship was a drawback. England desperately needed carriers at the Millennium Stadium and unfortunately James Haskell, Tom Wood and Chris Robshaw didn't offer enough. It's somewhat coincidental England scored just one try - a fortunate one that ricocheted to Manu Tuilagi off a stray boot - during the four games Morgan was not around and that led to calls for Billy Vunipola to get a run.
Most of the lead-up to the Six Nations had surrounded England's victory over New Zealand late last year and while yes it was an impressive effort, the world champions' players were at the end of a long and bruising year that included Super Rugby and the Rugby Championship. Take nothing away from that win though as it was one of real class, but it can be said that more lessons can be absorbed from the defeat to this Welsh side than December's All Black scalp.
It is worth remembering that most of England's class of 2003 went through last day Grand Slam pain so these tough and eye-opening times do build a player.
Build players they will do in Argentina this June as while their British and Irish Lions head to Australia, Lancaster and the English public will look over the likes of the Vunipolas, Billy Twelvetrees and hopefully Christian Wade, Freddie Burns, Elliot Daly and Matt Kvesic in the next step towards World Cup 2015.
Comments
jehosophat says...
"sirtidychris says...
Best thing that could of happened to england was losing to the Welsh. Our lions contingent will be much smaller meaning the much smaller argentina summer tour schedule will allow for further development then lots of rest, while the lions will be played into the ground then either come back injured or suffer a massive dip in form and fatigue/disinterest that happens to all the lions stars post tour."
I agree entirely with my England not Lions hat on - back a decade and more when England made up the bulk of the Lions sides key players were lost to injury and there was not a strong enough team left behind to make for useful development tours. I just hope Gatland does not pick loads of English players with no intention of letting them near the test side. For the test side he'll probably "do a Woodward" and just pick Wales plus a few hangers-on for his test team, probably with similar results,
Posted 14:51 22nd March 2013
carpelone says...
The most worrying game played by England in this 6N was the game vs Italy. Outsmarted, outplayed, outrun. Something is clearly going wrong as some players failed to raise their standards with respect to the Autumn Tests (Launchbury, Wood, the halfbacks and the backline in general). It sucks to agree with ABlack ;-) , but the game produced against New Zealand could have well been an exception.
Posted 13:41 22nd March 2013
ABlack says...
The more I watched England in the 6N the more I beleive them beating the AB's in late Nov12 was a fluke and the AB's played like crap due to the illnesses in the team.Watching the video of that game again Nonu missed so many tackles as he kept rushing up on defence leaving massive gaps for Englan to run through and that was 14 points alone due to his errors. Nonu seems to make defensive errors in games.
Also credit is due to England for that 80mins where they got stuck into the AB's and accumulated points very well. But why did they play so crap in the 6N against very weak sides not in the AB's league?
The next time the All Blacks play England they will be ruthless as they dont like to get beaten twice in a row by any team( and rarely do get beaten twice by the same team within 12 months period of time)
Posted 00:38 22nd March 2013
spike19 says...
rugbylover
Yes it seems I did but mainly because although Tipuric is obviously nowhere near the standard of McCaw (though he is still young), they are both international quality opensides and I was merely making the point that it is a position that England at the moment have precisely 0 stand out candidates. Neil Back was the last proper openside to have a sustained presence at 7 for England.
Posted 16:31 21st March 2013
TVaddict says...
@capedcrusader
No, no. You are having that. Embarrassing, embarrassing Wales. What has Wales's failure to breed got to with this?
Posted 12:26 21st March 2013
capedcrusader says...
@TVaddict
hahaha Not havin that.
Given the populations of Engerland and Wales I would think the win/loss ratio for the former is far more embarrassing
Posted 10:28 21st March 2013
TVaddict says...
@provyd
Nah, Wales don't have the mental strength to win a world cup. I mean, look at their record against the SH in general. Embarrassing.
Posted 07:06 21st March 2013
NHsaints says...
The truth is we just need time to be tried and tested, in Argentina our team should be 1.Vunipola 2.Youngs 3.someone new (don't really know who's up and coming at 3) 4. whoever isn't taken on the lions tour 5.Kitchener 6.Croft (c) 7.Kvesic 8.Vunipola 9.Dickson or Simpson 10. Burns 11.Wade 12.Twelvetrees 13. Daley 14.Eastmond 15.May 16.Corbisiero 17.Hartley/Grey (depends if Hartley or Youngs gets take on tour) 18.Wilson 19.again depends on who is on tour 20.Foden 21.Dickson or Simpson (depends which starts) 22. JJ so we can blood a load of new players, give some older players time to slowly work their way back from injury with 20-40 minute stints and give the inexperienced players some more test games - winning is not in the slightest bit a priority if we play well and we have the experience in the 22 to win as well with Foden, Croft, JJ, Dickson, Attwood, Hartley/Youngs, Wilson, M.Vunipola, Corbs, Burns, Simpsons and 12trees all blooded or experienced at test level.
Posted 20:21 20th March 2013
Coshie78 says...
In my opinion the argument England need a "fetcher" is a lazy cliché and insulting to Robshaw. He is proficient at it, alongside many others in the pack. If we had Adam Jones, Cicero & Jim Hamilton in the pack, yes we would maybe need a 7 with a bit more pace. However we do not, we have Cole, Youngs, Marler, Launchbury, Parling and Wood all who have won turnovers for England... If we have a 7 who is a better ball carrier and a "fetcher" that is a different story! Fraser could maybe be the answer... Wood to captain the side.
Morgan needs to be replaced with a carrier if not fit, like for like...Billy V to get in shape and fill that role...Would like to see Launchbury beef up and add to the carrying stats a bit more... and for God's sake can someone please fix Corbisiero's knee and get him back!
Youngs at 9, understands when to pass from floor and when to carry first (keep doing it, I know why you do), Farrell would be 10 in my England team at present with a view of developing Burns by next year's 6N, both need to improve in certain areas, but have the right stuff... Twelvetrees & Tuilagi for guile & girth in midfield, pace on the wings, at the moment probably Strettle & Wade... Foden would be my 15... I really feel for Brown, but that is the fact of the matter is he will never have the gas required to be an Intl back 3... If playing tomorrow (no injuries):
Corbs, Hartley, Cole, Parling, Launchbury, Wood, Robshaw, Morgan, Youngs, Farrell, Strettle, Twelvetrees, Tuilagi, Wade, Foden.
Bench has to have impact - Mako V, Henry Thomas, Youngs, Lawes, Billy V, Care/Simpson, Burns, Joseph, May
Posted 19:57 20th March 2013
5Lock4ward says...
The article points to England's lack of a ball carrier after Ben Morgan was lost to injury. What, if not a ball carrier, is Thomas Waldrom? I think that Croft was rushed back way too soon, probably as a favor to his hopes of touring with the Lions, when in fact Wood should've been allowed to remain at 6 with either Haskell or Waldrom at 8. I look forward to their tour of Argentina to see how well their depth players can adjust against a more than worthy adversary. It might be interesting to see someone like a Steve Borthwick or Nick Kennedy earn a recall on that tour, esp. since England's 3 first choice locks may all be wearing red soon. Anyhow, as someone who occasionally masquerades on this site as a bit of a troll in this department I can say with much sincerity that I am pleased to see the depth of English talent coming through at all positions, especially in the centers which has been England's major weakness for the last bit of time. I think if any of the current starting centers tour with the Lions they'll find they've lost their shirt to Mr. Twelvetrees upon their return to the UK.
Posted 18:50 20th March 2013
Coshie78 says...
England's 2003 side lost Grand Slam deciders when they were the better, more experienced side who went in as clear favourites. That is a world apart from Saturday's loss. Everyone involved now has another experience to add to their development. Hostility from a large crowd, big game pressure, how it feels to lose etc. It is up to the individual first and the coaching staff second to make sure these experiences are realised as improvements in performance.
Wales now and Ireland of late are/were far ahead in their development. Stout defensive systems and passionate playing culture in place. Effective attacking systems with players able to execute the structured game plans with the confidence to play what is in front of them when opportunities arise.
England need to start working hard on their attacking strategies, they have the rudimentary "run the big man up the middle and hope for quick ball and numbers". This clearly is not enough, but again is a base, hopefully to be used as a wider strategy to attempt to create mis-match opportunities and space. Wales started like that with Roberts and Henson. Hence the Worsley experiment a few years back. Roberts getting over the gainline, the playmakers putting those with pace into space. NZ have it with Nonu and Smith. It is the basics upon which they have developed. England struggle with the basics at the moment.
Crucial to the development now is to get the ball to and encourage the players with the skills and ability to attempt things. If they do not come off but were the right option, encourage them to try again. New Zealand have proved through almost every era that any defense can be broken with collective clarity of thought and razor sharp skills.
Skills = practice and should be mandatory for intl squad inclusion. The rest is coaching environment and takes time, hopefullly no more than 2 years!
Posted 18:18 20th March 2013
provyd says...
"There was talk surrounding this squad that a defeat such as this was needed for it to develop into a World Cup-winning XV."
Eh? This seems to be saying that a developing team will win the World Cup if they suffer a heavy defeat a couple of years before it. Where's the logic in that? Surely Wales (who are in England's group for the RWC) got a lot more out this game than England in terms of developing themselves into a World Cup-winning XV, especially as they are in England's group?
Posted 17:15 20th March 2013
sirtidychris says...
Best thing that could of happened to england was losing to the Welsh. Our lions contingent will be much smaller meaning the much smaller argentina summer tour schedule will allow for further development then lots of rest, while the lions will be played into the ground then either come back injured or suffer a massive dip in form and fatigue/disinterest that happens to all the lions stars post tour.
We are almost there, remember that this is still a very inexperienced team and with the likes of Slater,Kitchener, B Vunipola, Kvesic, Fraser, Burns, Twelvetrees, Webber, Wade, Foden, May, Clarke all on the fringes in two years time we will be a much different animal.
Posted 16:25 20th March 2013
jamesliveinhope says...
difficult to judge, we shouldn't forget that a significant proportion of this side were making their debut a year ago.
Against Scotland, we controlled the game and I agree about the loss of Morgan and its impact on the rest of the tournament.
I also think that we controlled the game v Ireland and to a lesser degree against France. The wheels came off against Italy and I think that, judging by the state of some of the players coming off the pitch in that game (notably the locks) that a brutal encounter 6 days later in Wales was a step too far.
I still think that the Welsh would have expected to win, but the scoreline says more about relative fitness than it does about relative ability.
There does need to be some attacking work, I think Marler is too far from the finished article yet and we should start looking at the development of Vunipola behind Corbisiero, if we are saying that the flanker Wood is a better 8 than Waldrom then we should be looking for other 8s to bring in to the set up.
And finally, there is argument for Foden, and Twelvetrees to step into the back line ahead of Goode and Tuilagi. Tuilagi needs to re-invent as a winger or get used to the fact that he won't be as effective at test level on the crash as he is for Liecester and learn how to draw defenders to release better placed colleagues.
I'm happy with England where they are, if the side can stay fit and stay together, they will have doubled their number of caps come 2015.
If I were Lancaster now, I would be looking at the secondary EPS players and trying to bring in some potential rather than mere back-up.
Posted 15:49 20th March 2013
rugbylover says...
More genuflecting needed. Catching the ball an excellent first step.
Posted 14:43 20th March 2013
JamieTheProp says...
spike19 - did you just mention Tipuric in the same breath as McCaw? Really?
Posted 14:07 20th March 2013
Chubbylugs says...
I don't think England's problems will be solved simply by picking a fetcher at 7. To do that, we also need to adopt a faster looser game to make a fetcher useful. We just need to be far more efficient at clearing rucks
The game plan at the moment is ok, but we have no line breakers except tuilagi and Morgan. We are making no inroads so resort to a territory game kicking from slow ball
I think Goode although great under a high ball hasn't been great. We have missed foden who has the ability to beat players with speed and strength. Goode seems too frail and slow and telegraphs passes
Tuilagi should be used on the wing or as an impact player. I think Barrett has really stood out as a solid dependable player, but his time maybe up
I don't think Farrell is the answer at 10. He has improved, but he still goes missing after a couple of phases. Toby flood should be the 1st choice, but played with youngs at 9 and probably 12trees. Freddie burns isn't ready. A lot has been made of his attacking game, but all I ever see are the same chip kicks
Having said youngs should be 9, the only 9 who passes the ball off the floor is Dickson. If we seriously want a fast game, we need to ditch 9s who take 3/4 steps to pass the ball.
I think the forwards are nearly there. We do need a bit more grunt and edge to our game. Haskells time should be up. He's a jack of all trades, but master of none - you can't really define his strengths, so id much rather pick a ball carrier or a line out exponent at 6. Wood shouldn't be playing at 8. I can even see robshaw moving to lock eventually
Posted 13:49 20th March 2013
Frooschman says...
At the end of the day, the loss to a magnificent Wales, should have highlighted a number of areas of concern for Lancaster: (1) The scrum is not good enough. I don't know why. But someone needs to work it out. We were splintered by Australia (of all bloody nations) in the Autumn and we were up against it with France before getting dismantled by Wales. Not good enough. (2) The balance of the back row is wrong. Morgan was missing but injuries happen. The question of playing a six at seven deserves to be revisited. (3) Farrell is excellent on the front foot. He is not excellent when his forwards are going backwards. (4) Creativity. 10, 12 & 13 don't work. Farrell stands too deep. Barritt and Tuilagi do not generate anything apart from crash ball. Tuilagi in particular is a one trick pony. (5) The balance of the back three is wrong. Ashton is out of form. Goode is only playing (in my opition) to supplement the failings of the 10/12 axis and as such we lack a strike runner. And Brown is out of position.
Having read that back that's actually a lot more than I thought!
Posted 13:30 20th March 2013
Tvaddict says...
Hopefully Lancaster has learnt that moving people out of position is a stop gap, not a long term solution. We need a ball carrying 8 and pace on the wings.
Squad to develop for 2015 (First preference/second preference/etc.):
1) Corbisiero/Vunipola/Marler
2) Youngs/Webber/Hartley
3) Cole/Wilson/(Doren Jones?)
4) Parling//Kruis
5) Launchbury/Lawes/Garvey
6) Wood/Croft/Clark
7) Robshaw/Kvesic/Fraser
8) Morgan/Vunipola
9) Youngs/Care/Simpson
10) Farrell/Burns/Ford
11) Biggs/Yarde/Eastmond
12) Twelvetrees/Barritt
13) Tuilagi/Joseph/Lowe
14) May/Wade/Sharples
15) Brown/Foden/Daly
Daly, Eastmond and May would be easy backs to develop as their versatility makes them great options off the bench. Same for a players like Kruis and Clark in the forwards.
Posted 13:28 20th March 2013
melkdave says...
A well rounded article,and certinally correct about the press ,building them into world beaters,if they had won the slam.That it would have been very premature,would have counted for nothing.I expect that most England supporters such as myself,though disappointed about not getting that elusive slam .Are still pretty happy with the progress being made by what is by anyones standard a very young ,and unexperianced team.To have lost in the aurtum ,to what was a very freakish score to the bok,and to have run Australia so close while having a victory against the ABs already,and then also to come so close to a grand slam in the 6Ns ,al bodes well .England are not the finished article by some way,and we England supporters realise that ,Defence is fine atm,but that all important creativity,and playing at a high tempo and intensity for 80 mins ,needs working on.England are quite close to sorting those out,but not quite yet.When they do then watch out,as they will have the tools and experiance to be real challangers come RWC 2015.Alot more progress will be done this summer ,as SL looks at the players mentioned in the article ,and few others .Also hopefully some club will be willing to try and get S.Armitage ,and his brother back in the AP ,so we can finally solve that 7 berth,as we know Robshaw is really a 6 .Now thats mouthwatering a backrow of 6)Robshaw-Wood 7)S.Armitage-Kvesic 8)Morgon-B.Vunipolo,is enough to give any coach nightmares lol.
Posted 13:00 20th March 2013