Planet Rugby

The big debate: Tiers for fears

19th November 2012 11:46

Samu Manoa of Northampton charges through the Newport defence

80 minutes for Saints: Manoa

There are few hotter topics in rugby right now than IRB Regulation 9.28 (c) so our prediction man, 'Orrible Punt, has done some digging on the issue.

Tiers for Fears

The International Rugby Board launched the IRB series this November, which in their own words was - "an extensive programme of competitive matches for Tier Two and Three nations during the November 2012 window". A fantastic arrival.

After complaints of how these teams were treated in the RWC, namely given shorter turnaround time between matches than 'bigger' nations, this move was seen as a huge step in the right direction.

Samoa followed up a big win over Canada by beating Wales and given that they lost to the Welsh during RWC 2011, having been given several days less to prepare than their Tier 1 opponent, then the result will no doubt be used to show that these fixtures are a success.

It's also clear there is a desire to ensure that 2015's tournament will be as competitive as possible, with extra funding coming for such competitions as the Pacific Nations Cup.

So far so good, right? But perhaps this new series of international games is going to inflame the always sensitive 'club versus country' situation.

Please release me, let me go

There was a reference on commentary during Sunday's Dragons vs Saints LV= Cup fixture that the USA coach had overlooked Samu Manoa and that he was of superior quality to the locks selected (Brian Doyle/Louis Stanfill).

However this didn't tally with a statement on the USArugby.org that said: "Samu Manoa, an important player for the Eagles, is suffering from a minor shoulder injury and will not participate in the tour."

I was curious when the player had picked up this minor injury - checking the season stats, Manoa has played 571 minutes in the Aviva Premiership (of a possible 640), 130 in the Heineken Cup (of 160). He lasted 80 minutes in the always bruising East Midlands derby on November 3, and recorded 14 tackles which was the highest in his team.

He missed the home LV= Cup defeat against Quins on November 10 so you would assume that the injury occurred close to that date or was perhaps a culmination of wear and tear from games, as it had been described as 'minor'.

I sought clarification from Nigel Melville, CEO and President of Rugby Operations for USA Rugby and asked whether the player was injured or simply not selected. His reply was: "yes an injury, certainly would have been selected, Ngwenya visa problem and Chris Wyles are unavailable for selection next weekend".

The USA faced and were beaten by Tonga in a match that kicked off at 20.00 in Colwyn Bay this past Saturday.

Therefore we witnessed a situation where a player missed an international match through injury, but represented his club less than 24 hours later and managed the full 80 minutes in what was deemed by the match experts as the most physical LV= Cup game they had seen in a long time.

It is worth mentioning that this player was discussed in an article by John Daniel in the Independent on November 6, with Eddie O'Sullivan quoted as saying the lock had missed the World Cup as he had "a clause in his contract prevents him from travelling to RWC".

The response from his club was that: "There is no clause in his contract preventing him playing international rugby; it was Samu's choice not to go to New Zealand with the USA".

It may or not be significant that the player signed a new three-year contract in February 2012 and therefore it would have been more relevant to know whether he had clause in his old contract - that began in April 2011.

Vis-à-vis

It's not just injury that can cause a player to miss an international match. As Melville mentioned, Takudzwa Ngwenya suffered an unfortunate Visa problem that was also reported in L'Equipe on November 7.

Due to a ten-day waiting period for Visa renewal he apparently couldn't enter the UK and had to turn down a selection request from the USA. This meant instead of representing his country, he played for Biarritz in a game against Perpignan and helped end a six-game losing run and pick up vital points.

Is it a coincidence that the timing of this issue allowed him to travel to England on October 13 to play Quins in the Heineken Cup and only became significant on the sole weekend that Top 14 fixtures clashed with the Test window?

IRB on the case?

Prompted by the recent Fiji stories, the IRB say they will act on the matter.

As mentioned by Melville, the IRB also said the subject of "release issues" during this month's internationals would be on the agenda for their November meetings in Dublin.

If it can be proved that a club offered money for a player to make himself 'unavailable' then that would be clear-cut. However can you state that the idea that a player may lose his spot due to competition for places if he is away for a few weeks is a 'disincentive'? The club could argue that it was the player's own opinion and that they reached it without any influence from them. How do you deal with a player that is unavailable due to passport issues - proving intent to miss an international would be difficult?

Going back to the Manoa case at the start of this article. Regulation 9.28 (b) says: "If the Union doctor, or his nominee, and the doctor of the Player's Rugby Body or Club agree that the Player's injury and/or illness is such that he cannot respond affirmatively to the Release request then the Player shall not be entitled to play for a Rugby Body or Club for the period for which he has been or should have been in attendance with the National Representative Team or National Squad save that if a Player becomes fit to play during the course of a Designated Event, he is permitted to play for his Rugby Body or Club unless the Union wishes and is able pursuant to any rules governing the Designated Event, to add the Player to its Squad for that Designated Event."

Given the player in question missed an international game but played for his club the next day, does this mean that the USA gave him permission to do so? Or is this regulation being bypassed, because injured players aren't selected in the first place and therefore no release has been sought? Perhaps the fact that the player recovered too late to play in the designated event is the key?

Nigel's (I'm not on 'Nige' terms yet) exact words were "certainly would have been selected" which is different to selected but unable to attend due to injury.

I fought the law and the law won?

Regulation 9.28 (c): "If having attempted to achieve a consensus on the nature and extent of the injury or illness and the Player's fitness there remains disagreement between the Union doctor, or his nominee, and the Player's Rugby Body or Club doctor over the Player's fitness to participate and respond affirmatively to the release request, then in circumstances where it is the Union doctor, or his nominee, that considers the Player is fit to participate and respond affirmatively to the release request then, unless the Player's Union agrees otherwise in writing, such Player shall not play for any Rugby Body or Club during for the period for which he has been or should have been in attendance with the National Representative Team or National Squad, plus an additional 10 days thereafter".

So the regulation is actually weighted to protect the international sides and in effect has a ten-day suspension if a club deems a player unfit but his country think he is fine to play.

There are also clear deterrents for clubs refusing players to be released:

(a) Termination or suspension of membership of the Union and/or withdrawal of other benefits of membership of the Union.
(b) A financial penalty.
(c) Deduction of league points.
(d) Relegation or exclusion or disqualification from any competition.
(e) Such other sanction as may be considered appropriate.
(f) Any combination of the sanctions set out in (a) to (e) above.

The problem may be that the rule makers envisaged that any punishments for non-release should be directed at the clubs whereas in reality it's likely that the players are making themselves unavailable. Hopefully issues are resolved in Dublin but for now, discuss.

By Russ Petty
@rpetty80

Comments

lawynd says...

@hellovanite - I'm merely suggesting that Auckland's status as the largest Polynesian community in the world should work for all of the Pacific Island teams, not just New Zealand. I'm not saying that a quality player shouldn't have the chance to play for the All Blacks (nobody in their right mind would turn that down), but there are an awful lot of players with a solitary or half-dozen All Black caps who could have represented their nation of birth or the nation of their parents otherwise; cut the red tape, allow these players to 're-qualify' and give them a Super Rugby platform to perform.

Posted 11:22 29th November 2012

hellovanite says...

lawynd... bu**er off mate. Great idea with the pacific Island team, but why would we want fully fledged New Zealanders playing for anyone else other than NZ. People talk about people with Samoan/Tongan/Fijian blood in different way to any other ethnicity because they are generally good at rugby. Maybe we should entice people with English/Scots/Welsh and Irish blood to go play in the UK. I don't think so we'd have no team, but you would advocate we do this with New Zealanders of a different ethnicity, why? Do think this will level the playing field or something

Posted 23:29 23rd November 2012

lawynd says...

Also meant to say, this is officially the best headline PR have ever come up with. More new wave-related gems in the future, please.

Posted 15:33 22nd November 2012

GCP_jones says...

@ferdie...

Re: the last paragraph of your post being Irish I feel embarrassed by it, its time for the players/fans of the game to make a concerted effort to shake up the old boys club that still sadly prevails in the IRB and Unions across the globe.

While I don't think Union will become as big a global sport has soccer, I firmly beleive that if some dynamic forward thinking was applied you could have a situation where a lot more countries would be really competative. There is so much un-tapped potential across the globe, not only in places like the U.S and Canada,Romania and Gerorgia, but I watched highlights recently of a game played between Namibia and Madagascar (they were the home side) which was played in front of 46,000, it was only highlights, but it was a cracker.

Enjoy reading your posts Ferdie, Keep on Keeping On

Posted 12:32 20th November 2012

kiwieire02 says...

@ Ferdie

Sorry about getting it wrong about England but I was purely going by memory which I pointed out in my previous post is a bit shaky on the issue. While my memory on the finer details of it may have be wrong I think I covered the gist of it alright.

Posted 10:02 20th November 2012

lawynd says...

Interesting read ferdie, thanks for the info.

What about another avenue of attack then, by the SANZAR nations? Allow one of the existing Super Rugby franchises (presumably the Rebels, realistically) to become the defacto Pacific Islands team in the competition? Not only would it help give Tonga, Fiji and Samoa more players with higher levels of experience but it might encourage players who would otherwise go on to represent New Zealand (the Auckland factor) to play for their country of birth or the country of their forebears, whichever the case may be.

Posted 09:39 20th November 2012

ferdie says...

GCP_Jones and kiwieire02

partly right - note supported by England not thrown out by them as you suggest. As this proposal has been knocked back three times I doubt NZRU will raise the matter again. There was no mention of games played, just a one-year stand-down according to this article.

From NZ Herald 8 Jul 2012

New Zealand, supported by Australia and England, has proposed this three times in recent years.

"In 2004, 2009 and 2011, the IRB voted against proposed eligibility changes that were designed partly to help strengthen the Pacific Island nations by allowing players to represent Tier Two Nations after a one-year stand-down if they had played for a Tier One Nation."

Wales, Scotland and Ireland vetoed the latest, 2011, proposal.

One might speculate why Wales, Scotland and Ireland voted against it. Over to you. The article suggested

"Ever since Samoa beat Wales at the 1991 World Cup, there has been a sense of the Celtic nations in particular working together to stifle the growth of the Pacific Islanders. The Celts fear their place in the global pecking order is under threat from Polynesia, which is why they have repeatedly voted against changes in the eligibility laws that would allow dual-qualified players to represent a Tier Two nation after playing for a Tier One country."

Posted 23:40 19th November 2012

GCP_JONES says...

@kiwieire02.....

Many Thanks for the heads-up

Posted 21:20 19th November 2012

russp says...

Yes, that was a proposal by the Oceania Fed to allow tier 1 players to stand down for a year and play for a tier 2 side, as long as they had a link through parents / grandparents. Basically an attempt to change the criteria in Regulation 8 "Eligibility to play for National Rep Teams"

Seem to remember it was supposedly rejected late 2009/ early 2010 because of fears that some players could move on ethnic grounds and others could not...but clearly the Tier 1 teams also didn't want say Samoa getting Chris Masoe, Jerry Collins etc in time for World Cup 2011

I will do some research on Reg 8 issues and see if there is scope for a future article on here.

Posted 19:33 19th November 2012

kiwieire02 says...

@ GCP_Jones

That Proposal was put forward to the IRB by New Zealand Last year before the World Cup and was thrown out by Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales. Australia and South Africa backed it, and I'm unsure of France stance.

Going from my memory(which is a bit shaky on it) it was initially specifically for Polynesian players who had played only a few games(like Casey Laulala) for the All Blacks could play for their home nation after a international stand down period.

I think 4 or 5 games for the ABs maximum was the cut off point to be used, and a 3 year stand down period (like the residence rule) was put forward.

I think the idea was to start from there and if it was successful, in the future it would have been extended to any player from a tier 2 or lower nation who had played for a tier 1 nation.

I don't why the nations that voted against it did so, perhaps they felt it didn't go far enough or something else.

Hope this helped.

Posted 18:17 19th November 2012

lorenz78 says...

Club contracts are not subject to any laws and regulations? If Samu Manoa really had "a clause in his contract prevents him from travelling to RWC", is that valid or may that be void because in conflict with other rules?

I could sign a contract in which I agree to work 20 hours per day, bound by chains and fed by bread and water, but in any more-or-less democratic country this would be invalidated by laws.

Posted 17:25 19th November 2012

GCP_jones says...

Excellent Article and something that needs to be sorted out, we need the game to grow outside of its traditional strong holds, I read recently that Rugby is the fastest growing sport in the States for example. The situation Fiji finds itself in shoiuld not be allowed to happen again,it makes a mockery of what International's are supposed to be about.

Does any one know what happened with a proposal a few years back that said,if a player had'nt been selected for a test side, that after a few years he could declare for the land of his forefathers eg.Sivivatu and Joe Rokococko.I think that idea had a lot of merit.

Posted 12:52 19th November 2012

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