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Might hurt the provinces in the short term but long term i think it will benifit the national team i can see more countries adopting this kind of policy in the future as more and more players will traval to make a living espically from the SH as they near the end of their careers Just look at the recent influx since the RWC into NH teams Im not saying its wrong for those players to move but the delvelopment of local talent must be considered look at football in Scotland and now England where the majority of players in the top flight are now forgieniers It certinally didnt help Scotland in the past and is now affecting England where good local players just cant get game time ect at their clubs
Posted 19:24 06th January 2012
@ bluelion: Your having a laugh, right??!
Reduced income from a LACK of props??
We have plenty of front row options in all provences.
Leinster: Healy, Cronin, Ross, Hagen, Sexton, McGrath, O'Connell, Moore, Merrey, Reilly....
Havnt even mentioned Dundan or Strauss who both will qualify for Ireland soon
(though I wonder how this rule will affect the overseas players who will qualify for Ireland)
Fans of other provences will have to excuse me, Im not as familiar with your teams
Ulster: Court, Maklin, Brady, Black, Fitzpatrick, Kyriacou, McAllister
Munster: Archer, Henry, McAllister, Borlase. But like I mentioned above, Muster are a little stuck on the front row option
Connacht: Wilkinson, Loughney, Flavin, Maguire are the only ones I can think of right now
And this scheme will give them plenty of oppertunitys to play. Cant get good if you dont get game time!
Posted 03:35 24th December 2011
What happens to Connacht here?
Posted 00:58 24th December 2011
@ genghis_j... your suggestion would pretty much destroy PI rugby & world rugby would be the poorer for it, probably to the other rugby's gain - hell, they might even be able to rustle up a propper World Cup!
I agree that Waldrom among others shouldn't be able to play for his adopted country so soon hence the formula I proposed in my earlier post which in practice would work like this:
Two of my wife's (many) cousins have Australian-born sons. One has 2 NZ-born parents & 4 NZ-born g'parents so if he chose NZ over Oz he'd qualify immediately; the other has 1 NZ-born parent & 3 NZ-born g'parents so would have to wait 2 years.
There being no seperate English, Scots or Welsh citizenship, does being born in one part of the UK make you eligible for all 3? Or Ulster therefore Ireland? I think probably not, but is this by convention or regulation? The point being, if there's no reg in place what's to stop someone's clever lawyer circumventing whatever it is that IRFU are trying to acheive?
Posted 23:55 23rd December 2011
I came here with the sole intention of seeing some silly comments.
I was not disappointed either.
The main argument against seems to be that forigion players raise the bar for ours.
Says an aweful lot about what you think of our players now, does it not? Competition is raised between GOOD players, regardless of where they come from.
Lads, while there are some issues that will arise (and there are ALWAYS some issues) I think this is a good thing for Irish rugby. For ages Iv been thinking of all Irish provicional teams. Leinster can do it. Ulster can as well. Right now Munster can not, thanks to McGann the usless tosser (Im a Leinster man but I have huge respect for Munster. It breaks my heart to see him ruin the province. But thats just my take)
And is playing for Ireland not the pinnical of rugby? If you think not your head is up your own posterior I do believe
Posted 02:23 23rd December 2011
I hope to Christ they change there mind on implementing this crap. Leinster cant afford to loose a star like Isa and Munster cant loose Howlet. Mike Ross was imported yeah when Deckie rejected him from Munster and Quins had the sense to buy him. Then Leinster bought him we have plenty of 2nd rows,its props we need we need a tight head who can lock a scrum down. Since we have Healy at loosehead and his age been so young, we are solid there for a while its the tighthead that concerns me.
Posted 02:01 23rd December 2011
Jesus I'm shocked by the narrow mindedness of some people! The provinces are the vehicle through which the national team achieves success. Not through how successful they are but moreso how successful the Irish qualified players within the provinces are.
The IRFU are investing heavily in the Irish Exiles arm of the IRFU at the moment (google it an see the website) and they are effectively treating this as their 5th province. You only have to look at the number of exiles coming up through the underage ranks at the moment to see the potential this has. If a small percentage of these players come into fruition and persue professional careers then this bold move by the IRFU will give them the opportunity to do so within Ireland rather than England.
The view I take is one of opportunity for Irish qualified players. The provinces and hopefully eventually all of them, will still be competitive at the top as the numbers of foreign players recruited will not drop massively instead be more carefully selected.
My final thought is how exciting would it be to see all our teams making the last 8 in the HEC with almost solely Irish qualified players in their squads...don't right it off, give it time because the juice will be worth the squeeze!
Posted 22:50 22nd December 2011
I meant East of course!
Posted 21:42 22nd December 2011
We look forward to the Heineken Cup moving west. And who could possibly be convinced to stay in Ireland after only three years?
Posted 21:17 22nd December 2011
@ porridge_time says... what's needed is for IRB to pass a reg saying that if a player wants to represent a country they weren't born in at an IRB comp then the residential qualification is 7 years less 2 for each (biological) parent born in the adopted country, and/ or 1 year for each grandparent. Taking out citizenship should also be a requirement. No fast-tracks, no exemptions, no exceptions.
Thus Waldrom (I've nothing against the guy btw, he's a fine player but he's just not English in the same way Craig Gower wasn't Italian & half the Japanese team aren't Japanese) qualifies after 6 years which is to say, in effect never, while genuine child-migrants (e.g. Ioane & Cooper, Mils & Kaino) will qualify without too much difficulty.
Still leaves a few loopholes & obviously we can expect some dodgy birth certs (remember Shane Howarth & "grannygate"?) from time to time but anything that gets rid of someone going to bed a kiwi, aussie or whatever & waking up as something else has got to be good for the game.
Posted 20:22 22nd December 2011
So if a Province signs an NIE fullback he can't play wing? Who gets to decide whether Afoa or Botha is the NIE prop & what compensation does the other guy's province get? 1st dibs on another position? Here's an idea: allow each province to have "x" NIEs in their 1st team each week, "y" in a wider squad of say 40.
Posted 19:37 22nd December 2011
Various Leinster fans commenting on Munster relying on foreigners, what? Okay prop is a big problem but given the way the Munster scrum has been dominated the past two seasons it was necessary and they spent alot of resources on Buckley. Bar prop there are Howlett and Mafi. Howlett has brought on players around him and there are players coming through and I would not expect Mafi to be 1st choice come the end of season but young players need looking after.
This all seems a little too extreme for my liking! I hope we are not after trying to poach players a la England!
Posted 19:34 22nd December 2011
So the IRFU have decided to target young uncapped overseas players - most probably from Pacific Island and New Zealand - and hope that three years in Ireland is enough to convince them to be Irish.
Posted 18:10 22nd December 2011
@Backing Leinster - So people from Swords are all below 5'4''? Strange.
We should've stuck Glenn Ross in at tighthead 10 or 15 years ago! The man's ideal competing weight is 40 stone - that's nearly twice Buckley's weight!!! Just imagine the damage he could do against opposition frontrows in the scrum!?!?!
Posted 18:07 22nd December 2011
I thought the whole thing was an early April Fools - but apparently not. AND YET WHAT A COMPLETE JOKE IT IS!!! The idea only one foreign flyhalf could be playing in the whole isle of Ireland is laughable nonsense! Foreign players have been essential to provincial success, not just in terms of skill but due to the levels of professionalism they bring with them, something the IRFU should be endeavouring to protect and extend not arbitrarily castrate in a cost-cutting exercise dressed up as a way of protecting young Irish talent. Putting restrictions on foreign talent is going to have one effect: Provincial sides are going to be catapulted back to the level of the Scottish regions! Foreign clubs must be over the moon at the prospect of facing a Munster side or a Leinster side full of inexperienced academy-level talent!
Point in case: What happens, for example, if Archer doesn't progress at Munster to an International-standard and the IRFU have already awarded Afoa the Tighthead berth over Botha? What then? Will we see John Hayes forced out of retirement and stuck back in the frontrow!?! Total nonsense!!!
Posted 17:54 22nd December 2011
Come on...holding Leinster up as the blueprint (no pun intened) of blooding players while saying other provinces are not doing the same, is a bit harsh. It's a case of Peaks and troughs, for years muster Front Row and replacements were completely Irish dominated, Hayes, Horan, Buckley, Sheehan, Flannery, Varley, Fogerty...you think all these Irish players woke up one day and could play the game...no...they were nurtured through the development process in place. Similarly, O' Connel and O' Callaghan O' Driscoll Ryan all irish second rows that came through the underage structure....I could go through the whole team!!
Munster and Ulster blood players just the same as Leinster, and just because we don;t get 50 basketball players out running around the pitch doesn't mean we are not developing the next generation.....
BTW - Leinster imported Ross :-)
Posted 17:54 22nd December 2011
@pog - I'll hold my hands up, I was being completely facetious. =P You might have noted that comments on other stories about our views on England selection only pick players from four or five clubs out of the twelve that play in the AP; there are only really two weak teams in the competition so to not really have anyone that stands out for England selection from five or six teams is a pretty bad situation, IMO. I don't know if I'd discriminate more than the IRB already do; someone mentioned Thomas Waldrom but not only is he an excellent player (thus fitting the criteria of benefiting the players around him), he qualifies on genuine parentage. I'd certainly be happy though if the AP teams instituted a non-English player quota though for each team; Europe needs to be more discerning about whom we bring up from the southern hemisphere in general.
Posted 17:20 22nd December 2011
Need to consider as well how this will impact player breeding nations such as NZ and SA. If the Irish market gets closed more players may decide to stay in their home countries creating a more competitive environment thus benefiting those national sides with greater depth.
I'm all for protecting provinces but these measures seem a little over the edge.
Posted 17:16 22nd December 2011
Sorry Leinster guy, i think your assertions are wrong. Its not that Ireland lack height, we have an average height pretty much the same as most Northenr European countries. I'm 6'1" walking around Bray i don't consider myself to be very tall. There are plenty of men taller than me, but when in Swords for the first time I felt very out of place, in a packed pub I think there was only one other man in there over 5'4. As for props i think its more been down to where, up until recently the majority of players came from, the private schools. They're are plenty of strong guys. Look at Glenn Ross, he could probably funtion as entire front row on his own. Ireland regularly wins strong men competitions competing against England,Scotland and Wales.
Also you seem to have tunnel vision with regards to the whole Kearney at 15 issue. With Horgan out who would you rather on the wing, Nacewa, Kearney or Kearney the younger. It may not be Nacewa's best position but its the best available combination of players and that's what the coach needs to be putting out. Nacewa at full back and Kearney on the wing would not be as an affective back 3.
Posted 16:33 22nd December 2011
This is an absolute joke, The IRFU are basically punishing Leinster because Ulster and Munster haven't develop players in the right positions.
Leinster have done their job developing, basically, a brand new back-line, a half back combo, two thirds of a back row and a loosehead prop, with many more down the line. In my opinion, they should also be exempt!!
Posted 16:20 22nd December 2011
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