Ireland

ThinkingGame says...

OK. No such Law exists.

Both of those do, and they do cover players lifting one leg, and attempting a tip tackle.

But there is no Section 10 Law for attempting to injure someone.

Posted 11:17 12th February 2012

nabberuk says...

@norm

You don't have to lift a player off the ground for it to be deemed lifting a player. So the foot on the floor means nothing.

Posted 09:48 11th February 2012

jamesliveinhope says...

@rugby_rockstar - sorry your comment is wrong - the yellow card is not for a specific offence but was intended as a means to offer the ref more tools to assist with his game management. It sits between a red and a penalty and is used for a whole pile of different reasons.

(a) as a sanction for persistent offending

(b) as a threatened sanction for persistent offending

(c) as a sanction for cynical play in key areas of the field

(d) as a sanction for dangerous but unintentional play

(e) to cool players off (for example following a fight, or where a player has lost his head)

(f) anything else that a ref considers fit.

I should say that I thought that both the on-pitch calls by Barnes and Pearson were poor, I'm just saying that blaming the ref is a cop-out.

I would also say that despite the rules and refereeing guidance, to all the people that are shouting about the lack of consistency, the only IRB panel referee who seems out of step with the dangerous tackle sanctions is Rolland on Warburton. I don't remember it getting red before or since in test match rugby.

Posted 09:13 10th February 2012

jamesliveinhope says...

@bitathisnow @bluelion - actually Michael Kearney has said that the disciplinary comittee said it wasn't even a penalty. Strange that that was the only piece of the decision that the Irish Times felt unable to quote directly.

I will say again, Wales scored 20 other points in the game. Yet it was a single call by the ref that "undid" them. Not the missed tackle on North for the Davies try, or the three tacklers that failed to bring North down for his. Or the Irish decision to start kicking possession away on 52 minutes.

As I said, we demand perfection from a ref who otherwise had a good game, but when we need to look at our heroes' failings its a different matter.

Should we also mention that Priestland missed a few sitters too - can hardly feel that Ireland didn't get the rub of the green.

Posted 20:07 09th February 2012

kije says...

Norms right on all counts here. To even suggest that Ferris's tackle was remotely similar to Davie's is laughable. Ferris made a tackle on the ball which was as safe as any tackle can be and not in breach of any rules as norm has clearly detailed. Davies speared a player off the ball and could have paralysed him. Anyone who thinks otherwise is probably a welsh partisan - having a blind and unreasonable adherence to the idea Davies was not in the wrong because he is also welsh.

Posted 13:47 09th February 2012

montyRN says...

Numerous comments on this, but if you saw the game, and take into account jamesliveinhope's point about the "see it once, in realy time" you can't blame Barnes on this occasion.

Personally, after seeing the replays, Ferris' was a dangerous tackle and did warrant a penalty (meaning Wales would have still won) and potentially a yellow. Barnes made a punchy call, slightly harsh maybe, but it was correct.

Citing panel have done the right thing - victory for common sense. Dangerous tackle, warranted a pen / yellow in their opinion, no further action.

Davies' was an off the ball incident, it wasn't actually a tackle - it was effectively a fight as the ball was nowhere near. Picking a man up tipping upside down and driving / dropping him onto his head should have been a red card whether it was a tackle or not, and as Barnes flatly stated he didn't see it and it was at the assistant ref's flagging, report and recommendation, Pearson was the one in the wrong.

If memory serves, the Pearson said something like "off the ball incident, lifted player above horizontal, driven into ground", and when asked for a recommendation (as Barnes was following play and had his back to the incident) he was told "penalty, yellow card for Welsh player".

My issue comes from the recommendation - there's no WAY that when stating the "above horizontal, driven to ground" that a yellow should have been recommended. My only criticism of Barnes is that he didn't question the recommendation by way of "that sounds like a tip tackle - are you sure it's only yellow?".

7 weeks would be too much if it was a tackle in open play, but it wasn't - off the ball, meaning it was dangerous, potentially life threatening due to dropping onto the head/neck. Davies deserved to have the book thrown at him, no matter how contrite he was.

Posted 10:38 09th February 2012

willy says...

Can't wait for pearson to ref the Ireland France game on saturday. How he can have a clear view of the Davies assult (wasn't a tackle - at no point did ryan have the ball) and only recommend a yellow. This proves that he doesn't not have either could judgement, common sense of the bottle to make the right call no matter how big.

He clearly saw the incident because he flagged it and recommend the yellow to Barnes who hadn't seen it as it was so far off the ball.

I'm all for the IRB backing refferees but in this case Pearson can not be defended and should be removed from his appointment to ref on saturday.

As for ferris, correct decision by the IRB panel but as for the penalty costing Ireland the match??? we would have lost anyway, Wales march 60 metres up the pitch with ease and would have kept going till they got a score.

Posted 10:22 09th February 2012

rugby_rockstar says...

Referees need to have matches taken away from them if they continue to use yellow cards as cop outs to red cards.

Red card - foul play

Yellow Card - cinical play.

its why the yellow card was brought in! if you apply this fundamental logic to both tackles then you get the correct result, red card for the welsh tackle, penalty for the irish tackle. No complaints. Referees have no business managing a test match if they don't know what colour card goes with what infringment. This sport postitutes itself in the name of dumb, braindead entertainment.

Posted 09:51 09th February 2012

Bones7 says...

@ benski, i agree massively, it's a joke that Davies' tackle was judged to be worse to the extent that it deserved 7 weeks more suspension. I agree that Ferris shouldn't have been banned but for BD to get 7 weeks is ridiculous.

Posted 09:33 09th February 2012

jamesliveinhope says...

The referee is the sole arbiter of fact and law on the rugby field. He can never be wrong on the field of play.

That tenet needs to be viewed within the resource he has available to him i.e. his eyes and ears with the assistance of the people running the line.

They see the action from a single view point in real time. They do not get the benefit of multi-angled slow motion replays a citing commission or judicial panel.

Don't blame the ref, blame the system.

And before we form an Irish lynch mob for Wayne Barnes contentiously allowing Wales the opportunity of scoring three points, we'd better save some rope for the Irish defenders who must be blamed for allowing the Welsh to score their other 20 points in the game. Maybe the captain for trying to shut-up shop far too early against a side with a reputation for the efficient use of possession.

May I remind everyone that, if nobody made a mistake of a rugby field, then the score would be 0-0 every match.

Posted 09:27 09th February 2012