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There's a big difference between feeling that the decision was incorrect and actually overturning it. Their ruling didn't effect the decision. The rule wasn't broken.
If someone in the Irish management said the decision was overturned, fair enough, there's something up with that, but none of the quotes from Irish management I've read say that.
Posted 09:52 13th February 2012
"the disciplinary panel itself felt the decision to award a penalty was incorrect"
"Any decision by a referee during a Match cannot be affected by a ruling of a Disciplinary Committee or a Judicial Officer."
Come on. Don't be obtuse. Those two are mutually exclusive. The citing panel cannot rule on the decision, only the reason given for the decision.
Posted 02:18 13th February 2012
Well, I don't think the decision was actually overturned.
Kearney's actual quote (the other one is paraphrasing and a bit misleading): "While we understand and fully support the stance to stamp out dangerous tackles in the game to make it safe at all levels, the disciplinary panel itself felt the decision to award a penalty was incorrect and we also felt that it was a fair and legitimate tackle by Stephen," he said.
He doesn't mention that it was overturned and I haven't heard anything about it being overturned, so the ref's decision wasn't affected, as far as I know. Doesn't look like that rule's being broken.
Posted 19:25 12th February 2012
"17.11 Standard of Proof
17.11.1 The Regulations relating to Standard of Proof have been prepared with
Law 6.A.4 of the Laws of the Game in mind. It is essential to preserve the
integrity of this Law and the referee┐s position as sole judge of fact and
law during the Match. Any decision by a referee during a Match cannot
be affected by a ruling of a Disciplinary Committee or a Judicial Officer.
A distinction is drawn between the referee┐s decision on the field of play
and reasons for the decision. This means that when after a Match a
Disciplinary Committee or Judicial Officer consider the further
disciplinary consequences of an incident, where the referee has already
made a decision on the field in relation to that incident, the Disciplinary
Committee or Judicial Officer may, nevertheless, enquire into the referee┐s
reasons for that decision and the circumstances surrounding it."
So no decision made on the field by the referee can be considered by a citing panel. The Irish team manager either has an incomplete grasp of the finding, or is lying to you.
Posted 14:41 10th February 2012
"Not only did Stephen Ferris escape any further punishment for his tackle on Ian Evans today, but the disciplinary panel that heard his case in London found a penalty should never have been awarded by referee Wayne Barnes, according to the Ireland management."
That makes me a little more irritated. Not completely wrong once, but twice.
Posted 23:35 08th February 2012
Ferris wasn't in control of how many legs Ian Evans had on the floor, or where he landed. Ian Evans was. Is the argument that it's OK to try and tip/spear tackle, but as long as the other guy gets gymnastic to avoid injury, you don't deserve to be cited? That if Donncha Ryan had put more effort into staying on the floor and managed it, the Davies assault would have been less serious?
He has only been cited as well. The disciplinary panel almost certainly will say there's no case on this occasion and give Ferris a gentle warning about lifting legs in the tackle.
Posted 09:37 08th February 2012
APV1, I agree that the criticism of referees is becoming "football-esque" and that's bad for the game. But really, the tackle by Davies was blatant, dangerous and illegal. I believe rugby refs are in contact with others who can advise them and we see this alot when it's not clear if a try has been scored. I don't know exactly how this works but couldn't someone have contacted Barnes to tell him what had happened ? Don't touch judges do this sort of thing as well ?
This was a close game, and with a man down on the Welsh side, the result might perhaps have been different so I think you can understand the Irish annoyance.
Having said that, I still think the welsh are looking formidable, playing well, have a large number of great players and could have won this game without resorting to violent play.
England won't win this championship so I hope the Welsh do and that they beat the French. But they should do it without Davies who should be banned while Ferris should not receive any punishment at all in my view.
Posted 09:13 08th February 2012
In the case of the citings i believe they are trying to apply some consistency to this area...the actual outcomes could differ. There has been a lot said about referees showing consistency and i think that Barnes, given the advice from his assistant referee, acted in the same vein. Davies "tackle" could have resulted in serious injury to Ryan but in the same manner Ferris could have done the same...the lad put his arm out to arrest his fall.
Posted 07:08 08th February 2012
Agree Davies should have been a red.
Ferris did tip Evans, take another look if you can't believe it.
Evans saved serious injury be being athletic, and twisting himself, and breaking his fall on his hands.
He is being cited as all tip tackles are recommended as reds.
I agree he will either get off, or a low ban.
Not so Davies.
Doubt he will play in the 6N this year, and maybe not the H cup.
Posted 23:38 07th February 2012
You've got to be kidding me... Ferris!?!??! He didnt even lift him up!
Posted 22:17 07th February 2012
I've only seen a snapshot of the Ferris tackle but it strikes me that, if a defender is going high to prevent the ruck and the attacker is looking to go straight to ground in the contact for the opposite reason, the potential result will always be ugly but difficult to blame the defender.
Davies banged to rights though I'm afraid.
It would be interesting to see if the new implementation of the rules, de-powers the contact area. After the disaster of Stellenbosch and the attempts to de-power the pack this may have the desired effect of opening the game up.
Posted 20:34 07th February 2012
The Davies tackle was directly comparable to Warburton's (if not slightly worse). This was Pearson's chance to do the right thing under pressure and he bottled it. More proof that Rolland is the only referee with the courage to do the right thing no matter what the pressure is on him. What a pity he was not refereeing the WC Final, it would have been a different and fairer outcome.
Posted 20:34 07th February 2012
Have the IRB issued another mandate post the infamous France Wales match at the World Cup? As was posted in great detail on this website, a mandate was issued by the IRB to all refs stating that a tip tackle was an instant red card. And this was reissued during the World Cup. Have they now changed their minds and decided it is just a yellow card? Because the Davies incident was clearly viewed by the touch judge and he only recommended a yellow card.
Posted 20:16 07th February 2012
If one applies the +90 degrees issue, one can point at any number of occassions where tackles have taken the "victim" into the "danger zone" and it wouldve been crazy to penalize them - how may times do we see some unidentified forwards feet in the air at the ruck? Clearly past the 90 degree and subj to similar risk at the breakdown but no penalty. Ferris' tackle would have been acceptable in 99pct of games and even tho in strict interpretation of the rule book, he was at fault i believe the law is badly constructed and applied. The reality is that the tackle was no more dangerous than the average. Another case of the tinkering of the content of the modern day rule book being ill considered.
As for the other contraversial tackles - Warburtons was a clear Yellow..but u can see why he got a red (personally I would have yellowed Vincent Clerc for his blatant theatricals and bcos he is French!) - As has been pointed out Davis' wasnt a tackle, it was an off the ball assault, beyond cretinous and an instant Red..
The point is, as the divercity of comment illustrate, we and the Refs all see it differently. Especially when the law book is open to such apparently wide interpretation.
and if i were the RFU the that is where i would start when seeking to clarity this. First step is to Cite Barnes for making such a stupid decision and ban him for a long time I am sick to the teeth of watching him prance around the field with no clue what he is doing other than ruining perfectly good games with stupid decisions
Posted 19:26 07th February 2012
Ferris wasn't even a penalty... It was a decent tackle!! Can't believe he is being cited. Did the citing officer forget it's a contact sport?
Posted 19:22 07th February 2012
I agree that the citing of Ferris is a farce, Davies deserves what ever they give him. The real villain of the piece is Dave Pearson who recommended that Barnes give just a yellow card. I'd like to hear what the IRB have to say about that.
Posted 18:36 07th February 2012
Davies - Yes, should have been a straight red. Well off the ball and a very bad tackle. Would think 8-12 weeks would be a fair ban.
Ferris - No, as an Irish fan I will admit it was a penalty but it was a very harsh yellow and I'm surprised he has been citied for it.
Posted 17:26 07th February 2012
Key word "feet" - ridiculous that Ferris has been cited - it would add insult to injury if he is now banned following the manner in which Wales were gifted the match by Wayne Barnes.
Posted 15:55 07th February 2012
Davies' offence was 10 times as bad as Ferris'. Only bright side if Ferris gets a ban is that we'll get to have a look at O'Brien in his natural blindside position.
Posted 15:53 07th February 2012
The most dangerous tackle I remember was on Al Charron of Canada - a full charge head butt to the jaw from a Fiji or Tonga player. I think Charron was retiring after that match anyway.
Posted 15:36 07th February 2012