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what sort of compensation do the brumbies get? is the result going to be changed? it should be, that would be less of a joke than the refereeing of jonker. the reffing in these games (seems to always be the bulls) is very very concerning i would hate to think anything untoward is going on. bottom line, SA rugby is a joke in all departments. shape up
Posted 16:47 30th April 2012
@Ramage - fair enough, comment made only out of respect for you, you are one of the more informed posters here for sure.
Posted 09:36 28th April 2012
Why shouldn't a referee have an important fact that influences a game spoken about. We have that happening here every week often uninformed criticism and sometimes completely wrong. It depends when this mistake is made in terms of the timing within the game. First few minutes we tend to forget last few minutes its a major mistake. People have only chosen to castigate Bray because he was honest and said it was a mistake. He also went on to say that he was more than happy about the way Jonker controlled the game. This praises Jonker for his overall control despite a high penalty count against the Brumbies. The difference is that there has not been a flood of letters about how Jonker is a cheat or favoured the Bulls and this has been confirmed by Bray from the assessment of Jonker's game. I don't believe Jonker cheated he felt, or was advised by his assistant that it wasn't a knock on and called out play on. By that time players had stopped and there was the problem. The law doesn't allow him to call back the players and set a scrum. He has been informed it was a mistake but too many passes are called forward which I feel are not or knock ons that drop straight down or go backward. I could be wrong that is why I never call refs cheats and having refereed myself I know enough about position on to the field to know you don't guess even if you end up looking an idiot.
@Carpelone get over Bryce Lawrence its gone now and it has nothing to do with what Bray is saying. If you find it hard to understand that I will spell it out Bray speaks for Sanzar not for the IRB. So he has no right to speak about Lawrence and his performance in the RWC. Bray is carrying out the SANZA edict that referees will be made more accountable you may not like it but it is what was decided.
@wallaroo I will reply to those who call refs cheats as it is non ending so sorry if you don't like it.
Posted 07:35 28th April 2012
turboboy please reread the laws, nowhere does it say knock on can only occur in the field of play. See 12.1 (d), a knock on occurring in-goal.
Posted 18:17 27th April 2012
@Turboboy: does your mom know you're using up here bandwidth? Can't knock the ball on in your own in-goal area...Yes, yes mate. Just like Richie McCaw can't be penalised when he's lying at the base of the opposition's ruck with his hands, arms and legs wrapped around the ball.
Posted 16:26 27th April 2012
@Ramage. You make a good point about Brown, however if we were to examine games prior to this where criticism should have been made in respect to games lost due to referring mistakes then there have only been 2.
The first was Glen Jackson in the Canes / Sharks game.
The second was Jaco Peyper in the Saders / Bulls game.
This game included tries awarded to both sides incorrectly, so score final score was over-inflated each way still would have resulted in 4 points to Bulls and 2 to Brumbies no great loss.
I highly respect White as a coach and agree that the job he has done with the Brumbies is a miracle but he needs to learn to be a bit more discrete and should have opened the forum behind closed doors and kept it behind closed doors.
Finally including "What a sad lot some of you are" is what I expect from Bok_something or ruckingkiwi not from you. Mate this only goes to aggravate not soothe, you're a much bigger and better man than this.
@sandal "6. We should all blame Australia." ROLMAO, glad to know that there are still some that don't blame us and need coaxing. Us shackle dragging convicts get some reprieve, cool.
Posted 14:55 27th April 2012
Bok Avenger said
"Bray has nothing to say about the Brumbies knockon behind their own goal line in the last 5 mints which wasn't blown either". The field of play where knock on's can be ruled as knock on's and this does not include the in goal areas. The field of play is between the side lines and the goal lines. Hence why video officials cannot rule on events in the field of play. You cannot knock the ball on in your in goal area unless it rolls into the field of play.
Personally I think SA produces some great referees and have officiated brilliantly in some pretty tense games. Referees the world over only get better by doing their job and learning all the time. Lets not forget that these guys have to be 100% knowledgeable of a pretty extensive rule book.
Everybody gets decisions wrong and maybe he had a shocker of a game but unless we want games officiated like american football with 7 on field officials and it taking 3 hrs just give it a rest - have a bleat but don't let it ruin your day.
Posted 13:39 27th April 2012
Did anybody responded about Bryce Lawrence QF?
I do really believe you are missing the point. As you can see on the thread after the game, I congratulated the Brumbies and I ponted out that also the first Bulls' try was a forward pass.
Jonkers made mistakes and could have cost the game to Brumbies. Then, there is no need to go public about this. Otherwise, I expect that every ref performance will have to have publicly reviewed, like the ones of Bryce Lawrence in the QF and the one of Craig Joubert in the final.
Posted 13:35 27th April 2012
@Rognavald you take the prize for the most stupid post on this subject. You ask where were SANZAR in the World Cup matches? Get a grip the answer to that is nowhere. They were nowhere to be seen. Why? because it was not their tournament.They had no jurisdiction over what happened at the RWC which is an IRB controlled event.
Do you have any idea of what you are talking about? No just the conspiracy theory you have in your head that the world is out to get South Africa especially in rugby. Oh please give it a rest and next time don't post rubbish that shows up your ignorance.
Posted 12:19 27th April 2012
One of the things we were told when I first started playing 100 years ago (feels like) was play to the whistle. Like a boxer defending yourself at all times. We seriously need to have neutral refs back again even if only to appease the conspiracy theorists. Agree with the comment that refs have been pretty average this year. Been a few howlers. Sadly all the comments are about refs and not the rugby yet again week in week out. i cant believe Sanzar or the IRB are that arrogant they can ignore this?
Posted 12:04 27th April 2012
The pass was forward and a mistake was made and it cost the Brumbies the game. Jake White a South African queried the difficulties of understanding where Marius Jonker a South African referee was coming from with his penalties as he wondered why the Bulls heavily penalised in other games got off in this .White wanted to fully understand so he could work with his team to eliminate them.
Good coaching. Bray responded, but as usual the sensational has been picked out of the reply and made a lot of about the knock on. Some people on here still cant accept that it was a knock on yet here Sanzar referees through Bray the head are saying it was. Oh hang on lets query the nationality of the chief referee of Sanzar. As Bray is a NZer he must be a cheat, incompetent or down right wrong according to some Saffas who cant accept Jonker and his assistants got it wrong.
Then the bleating starts Trust a NZer to pick on the poor SA referee trust a NZer to pick up a SA referee as he never complains about these NZ referees. Totally ignoring the fact that earlier in the season Bray let everyone know that Keith Brown a kiwi referee got a decision he made in a game completely wrong and he was told about it and taken through the reasons why. Isnt it funny how the Saffa apologists come out in force and defend their own referees and incompetents like Legoate and Muewesen both failed and sacked Super Rugby referees yet continue to harp on about alleged mistakes made by other nations referees. The reason that some referees are not criticised for the alleged mistakes is because they weren't mistake. We can't expect the bleaters to accept that. Take note Ruggamafaka Bray was asked to comment by Jake White he did not just pick it out and even if he did he had already admonished Brown for his mistake so don't give me this whining saffa line he is picking on us.What a sad lot some of you are.
Posted 11:42 27th April 2012
I wonder if he will also be voted referee of the year now...
Saffa boys reading from same script now it appears.
Posted 10:48 27th April 2012
Its the second time, the other crucial error by a ref at loftus this year was steve walsh. Don't know what incident your referring to with the crusaders game? The white card?
Posted 10:43 27th April 2012
1. Sanzar said at the start of the season that referees would be more answerable than in previous years. There would also be public responses to refereeing controversies. Bray is only doing what Sanzar said he would. And didn't we all want that?
2. In the game, all the players stopped, Bulls and Brumbies alike. In the circumstances, the ref probably should have blown his whistle and called a scrum, even if it was a Bulls feed.
3. In heaven, rugby games involving two or no South African teams would be reffed by South Africans. In hell, rugby games involving one South African team would be reffed by South Africans. This is true of even the best refs.
4. Marius Jonker should never have been placed in this position, but Sanzar has adopted a "best refs" policy, not a "neutral refs" policy. It has had to do so because the standard of Australian refereeing has declined so badly.
5. Isn't it gorgeously ironic that the team that is coming third, but really coming sixth, should score five tries to two (and one of those two a croc) and lose? The Brumbies have no moral right to complain about anything.
6. We should all blame Australia.
Posted 08:24 27th April 2012
You say: ""You people are honoustly overestimating your own intelligence and underestimating other's..""
Posted 08:05 27th April 2012
in the bulls defence-- they are not a cheating team- they did not ``take advantage of the ref``` like some other teams do--they just played the game as they always do --the only reason the brubbies came so close was because the bulls seriously took the foot off the gas in the last 10 mins--probably out of embarrassment for the poor refereeing ---
Posted 07:56 27th April 2012
And where was Sanzar in the world cup natches with South Africa versus Samoa and in particular with South Africa versus Australia and to whit a referee who is culpably off side is given an award by the NZ rugby unjion.
NIce to see a South African side benefitting from a referee decision so what is the opposition squawking about?
Posted 06:30 27th April 2012
Second time this year at loftus that there has been a cock up. Against the Crusaders also. Very lucky Bulls. Wake up referees!
Posted 00:59 27th April 2012
It is like football. When you do not know how to play, you become a goalkeeper. In New Zealand, if you can't play or manage a sheep farm, you become a ref.
Posted 21:43 26th April 2012
@ RuggaMafaka & @ Bok-something... fyi Bray's an aussie not a kiwi.
Love the irony that after all the bias/ cheating allegations spewed by a small but vocal few on PR it's one of your own refs who stands accused of appearing to favour one of your teams... God forbid this was say Jon White & the Bulls copped the bad end of it v say the Chiefs, we'd never hear the end of it...
Posted 20:53 26th April 2012
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