Mailbox: The John Smit saga

Thursday 10th July 2008

Such drama! The incident has already been dubbed "O'Driscoll 2".

Furious Springbok captain John Smit pulled no punches about the incident in which he was lifted and dropped by All Blacks lock Brad Thorn.

The injured Smit accused the All Blacks of demanding preferential treatment while teeing off on every controversial element to emerge from last Saturday's Tri-Nations match in Wellington.

Thorn was suspended for a week for "unsportsmanlike conduct" or some other such vaguerism, ruling him out of the second Test in Dunedin on Saturday.

It was a charge and punishment that left the 2007 World Cup-winning skipper Smit shaking his head. And he's not the only one it seems...Smit's parting shot got plenty of tongues wagging.

Cowboy or cry-baby? This is what you had to say about it!

While I appreciate the fact that there has been nothing else except whining coming from the Springbok camp, I have to admit that we shouldn't have used the media for these gripes and/or complaints. The ironic thing is that the one team who historically never complains about the South African physicality seems to be on the receiving end from us.

That being said, if one looks at the actual complaints coming out of the Springbok camp, they aren't complaining about the physical acts! The complaints have all been directed at the refereeing and legal panels of the sport we love so much! And to be perfectly honest I would have to laugh out loud on basically every count except one, the Brad Thorn issue. Due to our tainted image of thuggery we as South African's have had to endure a lot of disappointment, embarrassment and even resentment over the last ten years and justifiably so.

Today, through a lot of effort and commitment from Jake White and his team, we've manage to erase that from our memory. But as with everything else you don't want in life, you take responsibility for past mistakes and our image lingers still. It's exactly this that's grating most of the South African rugby public I believe, the perception that the All Blacks have been excluded from this mantle through the actions of Brad Thorn on Saturday. Hence the comment by the Springbok captain that if it was Bakkies Botha or even Victor Matfield carrying out the same acts of stupidity, he would not only have received a yellow (or perhaps red) card, but also would have been cited and I would add possibly banned for at least two weeks as well.

Any logical man would have seen the same thing happen in the world cup, the irregularities during the citing process was evident throughout the tournament, but rugby isn't about logic and much more about passion. One shouldn't allow all these non rugby issues cloud what was truly a brilliant, brutal All Black versus Springbok Test match, no matter what comes out of the Springbok camp.

While the All Black's might be laughing at the fortune regarding Brad Thorn, I would suggest they shouldn't laugh too much. After all, denting the pride of the Springboks is one thing, but denting their image of being the most physical of all rugby playing teams is something completely different.

- Richard Laing

PS: Matt Goddard is not the correct referee for the Carisbrook Test, mark my words gentlemen.

Whilst I fully subscribe to the notion that players should do their talking on the pitch I believe that John Smit has a very valid point. This is a man who very rarely gets involved in media slanging matches, a revered captain respected globally who has conducted himself with nothing but humility, dignity and pride over the years; a true ambassador for the game and for his country and so, when he does talk, the world should listen. Only the most biased of Kiwi fans will argue that Thorn's punishment fits his crime. It is high time that somebody speaks out against the continued neglect of the Boks at the hands of Australian and Kiwi officials, be it on or off the field. Why should the All Blacks play to a different set of rules? And Dickinson is a muppet for the record.

- Chris (London)

Genius. Manages to equate attacking Dan Carter's head (repeatedly) long after the ball has gone, with 'tackling'. How does he manage to injure his groin when he was slammed onto his back? Pretty sure by the nature of his complaints that his groin area is fairly small and unlikely to have been caught under his back when he landed.

He was neither dumped on his head, nor driven into the ground - so his on field complaint of 'spear tackle' was ignored, and rightly so. If he doesn't like rough stuff, he shouldn't have shoved Thorn's head which was the catalyst for the back slam. Hypocrite.

An Aussie ref favouring the All Blacks? About as credible as Smit 'accidentally' running into someone with a raised elbow.

- Joe (Greece)

Me thinks cry baby. The dirtiest team in the world are the Boks. They used to complain that the Wallabies scrummed illegally, now they blame the ABs. Look at the replay, Thorn picked him up and put him down like a baby after he was pushing Thorn's head into the turf. If they cant beat you the Seth Afrikans will punch there way to victory. Butch James should be banned from playing rugby he has always been a late tackler and one that does not use his arms. A leopard cannot change his spots. So my message to the Smit is dry your eyes son and grow up.

- Frik van Zyl

Smit is spot on in his comments. There is no doubt Bakkies Botha would have copped a minimum of 4 weeks if he had been the culprit. Its an absolute shocker that Dickinson didn't at least yellow-card Thorn.

- Elwyn

Crybaby! Poor Smit, does he not realise McCaw was not playing? I see Butch "no arms"James is back to his worst...
Grow up South Africa. You were walloped and just can't take it.

- I. Oberol (London)

Smit is correct on every point, and his McCaw analogy hits the mark. Thorn should be out for the entire away leg.

- Trevor Greening (Denver, Colorado)

Cry Baby! Sh*t Happens mate. Don't provoke people with your own dirty play. If you can't take it don't dish it out!!!

- Ken

Lets take a look at this thing. Did Thorn deserve more of a punishment than he got? Sure he did, no question there. He should thank his stars that he is not out for four to six weeks. Should Smit be crying as he is, well that is up to him to do as an individual.

The thing I find crazy is that RSA is the dirtiest team out there. They have the talent and skill to not need to play the way they do but yet they are dirty every chance they get. What about the late hits on Carter? I don't remember hearing any crying from him and lets fact facts, he is a much more valuable player than Smit. This is a prime example of the pot calling the kettle black. Perhaps you boys from SA rugby should look at the way you play week in and week out before you start crying like a bunch of babies.

So sorry you were on the receiving end of foul play for once. Perhaps the reaction of Thorn was in part to the endless amount of niggle handed out by your team over the years. As for Smit needing to call and congratulate his mates after winning this weekend, well I don't think he will have that problem to worry about.

- All Black Fan

Regarding the Smit-Thorn incident. They have always been like that, since the 60's. Cry when something like this happens to them. Remember the Catchpole incident?

Time SA pulls out of the Tri-Nations and Super 14 and start playing some other competitions, maybe Heineken Cup, Six Nations? Stuart Dickinson always punishes SA to the extreme while he is blind to other teams' errors and foul play.

SA remains the World Champs for another four years. Maybe Dickinson and New Zealand and whoever else should deal with that.

- Deryck

Smit swatting Thorn landed him with more than he bargained for, and he deserved what he got.

South Africa "the Great Provocateurs" have a deliberate strategy that includes expecting to get away with that stuff behind the guise of being rugby's tough guys. Therefore it's a bit ripe for SA to be popping off at anyone else under these circumstances, especially in order to concoct the perceived privileges of others to deflect from your own glaring weaknesses, particularly when you have been getting away with it that very same thing since the dawn of rugby, and Smit himself is personally known as a biff specialist. This is laughable, and rugby, not Ringa-Ringa-Rosie.

So let's cut the bullsh*t.

SA/NZ Tests are the rough battle royal, nothing else in rugby comes close to it, especially as compared say, to the last dull, and uninteresting world (yawner) cup final this is the stuff to watch, and it is exactly what we expect to see when these two teams lock horns.
In days gone by incidents like that between Smit/Thorn occurred much as they do today, but in pre professional rugby days, the players were something better than the squawking "little movie stars" and "legend in their own mind" types that populate the rugby landscape in this day and age.

- Vaughan Billing (Canada)

John Smit speaks the truth!

- Dan

How often have you heard John cry foul? But the dude is 115kg +/- and being dumped like that cant be good for anyone. Ok it was not a direct spear where ones head and neck make contact first with the surface, but...but but...his legs did break the parallel and that's considered DANGEROUS people c'mon now.

IRB - BE FREAKING CONSISTENT PLEASE!!!!

- Ryan

Cowboy or cry-baby you ask? If that is the question then I would have to go with none of the above, the comments John Smit made whilst leaving New Zealand are totally valid. But unfortunately what is done is done, no use crying over spilt milk etc etc.

Everything in rugby these days tends to favour New Zealand especially the ELV's - pulling the mall down is now legal, Kiwis cant mall now they won't have to. Line-out's don't have to be formed and you can now have as many people in a line-out as you want, Kiwis can't jump in line-outs, now they don't have to... the list does go on but I won't bore you with it. Suffice it to say, no-one gets away these days with a spear tackle. The Kiwi's can - you do the math.

- Mybroth

It is laughable. This "we were unfairly treated" diatribe spouting forth from the SA camp following their loss in Wellington smacks of sour grapes, which is surprising given their proud track record in this area. Does John Smit really think that their off the ball niggle should just be accepted? The 'off-the-ball' play features highly in the SA tactical weaponry, and whilst Brad Thorn's retaliation was over the top, poorly executed, and illegal (and as a result punished), it absolutely sent the right message to the SA forwards in particular. That's the way the game goes sometimes. If you can't live with it, just turn the TV off, or refuse to play. Simple.

Mr Smit: The rules of rugby apply to everyone playing. Just because SA has this reputation for off-the-ball play doesn't mean that you should also get away with it. If you're going to dish it out, don't complain when it comes back at you. Oh, and a groin injury resulted from Thorn's retaliation? Yeah right. Very convenient. Next time warm up more carefully.

The communication coming out each camp this week is quite different. One is whining about the past, the other is getting ready for another huge match-up. Anticipate a bigger winning margin for New Zealand.

- TJM

It looked to me that John Smit may have initiated that stunt. Sure Brad Thorn should have been carded, but John Smit is a tight forward and should be accustomed to such.

I think Peter de Villiers is a big fraud. There he was gloating on the Boks' new attacking style while whipping the Six Nations teams, and after the first defeat, admits to the wrong style. Everyone knows he is a 'quota-fill' anyway - the sad part is that there are better coaches both black and white!

John Smit, Butch James, Percy Montgomery, Adi Jacobs and Joe van Niekerk were not fit to play and shouldn't have. Peter de Villiers made a complete mess of a selection and he had plenty prior advise and real Super 14 talent. Instead of complaining about scrummaging, why not select BJ Botha to sort things out? (sarcasm) Beside the one incident, Brad Thorn was nowhere near as bad as Bakkies Botha on off-the-ball incidents. Yes, when I lose at anything, I blame the opposition for cheating every time!

- The Balls

If you care to look at the statistics of past rugby tests it is very obvious that the Springboks are targeted to a much greater degree than their opponents. Just take last years Tri-Nations as an example. Four Springboks yellow carded. Not one All Black or Wallaby. What this does is it gives the Springboks opposition a free hand to do what Thorn did on Saturday.

The Smit incident was a blatant attempt to injure a popular captain and therefore a threat to the All Blacks. They did the same thing on the last Lions tour of New Zealand.

Richie McCaw is perhaps the greatest cheat in world sport. He makes Marion Jones and doped cyclists seem positively angelic. If you bother to really watch his every move on the rugby field you will see what I mean. But hey, he is one of the untouchables isn't he?

- Wayne

Smit is a big cry baby and he should take it on the chin and move on. He should start by looking at his own backyard first, ie, all the off the ball cheap shots some of his players put on the ABs. Smit has found out the hard way that being RWC winners does not guarantee victory over anyone least of all the ABs. When will they learn.

- Davo Te' (China)

John - you are so transparent for a fatty. You left the field because you're to fat and out of shape and will never be able to handle the pace of the game under ELV's.

We love your quote..."I got six weeks for running into someone with my elbow. Its a bit like officer I didn't kill him, he ran backwards around the corner 17 times onto my knife". Oh and yes, Father Bakkies Botha is a saint.

John Smit (see if you can tell what's really going on in my head?)

"Those horrible nasty mean all blacks should respect me because I'm the captain of SA, the world champion rugby team"

"I'm too unfit to play this test, I'll pretend big mean brad thorn hurt me when he dumped me"

"I'll try and get him sent off my calling it a spear tackle even though it was my fat arse that hit the ground first"

"I can't possibly risk playing the AB's again and getting killed up front in the scrum. I mean I've got to go out on top...what would I tell my boy?

See you went and raised your hopes and expectations in the hope of basking in the glory of having won Bill. Truth is, now you have a target on your telly tubby tummy. The Kiwi's haven't really found SA a challenge for along time now (we worry far more about our wallaby neighbours). But there is nothing more healing for the perennial RWC chokers than beating the world champs 3-0 by a healthy margin, and especially embarrassing them up front. Go on, rush off home John, I can hear the kettle boiling.

- Peter Burridge

It is always tough to see a player injured, especially after the whistle with some unsportsmanlike play. However, it was not a spear tackle. Smit was not driven to the ground on his head or shoulder. Consider that if Thorn had been yellow carded as he should have been, he'd probably be playing this weekend. There is no doubt the Thorn's reaction deserved a sanction, but Smit did have a go at him and Thorn is not one to back down. If you play the game, you'd better be prepared to get as good as you give and live with the consequences. So for me, Smit's departing comments make him look a bit silly after he had kept such good composure after the incident. I'm sure he has just added even more fire to an already fired up All Blacks.

- Marty

It was an intense, fast game, adrenaline up in the danger levels. John Smit grinds Brad Thorns head into the ground, Thorn gets up and grinds Smit's whole body into the ground, Thorn didn't need to do what he did, but either did Smit. If Smit hadn't provoked Thorn, Thorn would not have picked him up and dumped him like a little rag doll.

Of course no excuse for Thorn.

With this talk about a spear tackle, Smith was just picked up and dumped, he wasn't spear tackled, to be spear tackled you need to driven head first into the ground. Thorn didn't drive Smit head first into the ground, he basically tackled him....and for Smit to get hurt in a tackle, then well maybe he should be talking to his strength and conditioning coach, because something is obviously not working.

If NZ had it all there way in the rugby world, then why didn't they win the World Cup or even beat France??? They dominated the whole match against France, from set piece to scrums to line-outs, possession....yet they were on the wrong end of the scoreboard. A few penalties not given, a few wrong ones given against them, forward passes from the other team resulting in tries, offsides, killing the ball, etc. The All Blacks are on nobody's favourites list.

The majority of dirty play during this last Test, was from the Boks. They didn't go out to play hard and play fair. From the word go, they were out to provoke and upset!

- Outsider sitting on the fence

First the Australian cricket players complain about sledging. Now the South Africans are complaining about 'dodgy tactics'?! I never thought I'd see the day. How embarrassing!

All we need now are the AB's to complain about not throwing straight into line-outs.

Smit struggle to play 30 minutes, let alone 50. South Africa is better off without him. He should go back to Europe - I'm sure he's missing those baguettes.

- Ash Burn

How ironic that a south African is upset about an off the ball incident, sure it was wrong and he has been punished. The South Africans are known to play people off the ball as part of their game plan. Sore loser Smit, you are losing credibility.

- Nick Quin

Smit is a big girl's blouse. Richie McCaw was spear tackled (and it was a spear tackle) by Lote Tuqiri and the rugby world didn't stop and Richie didn't make a media issue of it. The Boks also engaged in cynical foul play with the targeting of Dan Carter probably the least of it. Brad Thorn was completely in the wrong and should have been sent off for ten minutes but there's no conspiracy here - just poor control of all off-the-ball incidents. The best thing the AB's can do for Smit is beat the Boks in Carisbrook to ensure Smit can realise his personal glory another day.

- Rugby Fan (Auckland)

Pot Kettle comes to mind!

- Gareth Williams

SOOK - IF YOU CAN'T COPE WITH RETALIATION DON'T START THE NIGGLE!

- Allen

Smit is lucky not to be cited for elbowing Brad Thorn in the face as he got up.That is why he was upended and despite some media claims it was not a spear tackle.

The Boks are happy to dish out the dirt but if the opposition returns the favour they cry all the way to the media. Reminds me of that Irish wanker who claimed he was spear tackled by the ABs.

- Gerry Portegys (New Zealand)

Definitely crybaby...

Shame really, maybe John Smit does not recall the targeting of Richie McCaw when they copped him two black eyes from their so-called fair play. As I recall, the All Blacks senior players finally came out and said something along the lines of aiding their captain against future thuggery from the Boks. I don't recall Richie talking it up, and a groin injury after provoking Thorn by trying to shove his head down... good job, although I don't know any locks who are normally elevated to that height and fall to the ground to get a 'groin injury' from it. To the Boks, get over it! You had your best attempt to beat the boys in black in Wellington, live with your feeble attempt.

World champs you are, good for you. Number one ranked you are not.... live with it.

- Timothy Vaafusuaga

Absolute cry baby and what you expect from the South African team. Without a doubt the dirtiest team in the world and they have the hide to complain about off the ball stuff. I applaud the All Blacks for not retaliating more when constantly taken out late and with shoulder charges, knees in the rucks and attacks around the head. Thorne was retaliating to Smit holding him down and pushing his head into the ground, so as stupid as Thorne's action was Smit can hardly act self righteously.

How Butch James constantly gets away with what he does is the real dilemma. Constantly borderline high tackles, with little or no arm and invariably late as he lacks the timing and skill to compete properly. What is stranger is that he is not even close to the best 5/8 in South Africa. Such a great backline as theirs needs to be unleashed and he is not the one to do it.

When you play the All Blacks you expect a hard, fast and fair game. When you play England you expect a tough physical confrontation at the breakdown and when you play South Africa you expect niggle, off the ball action, late tackles and targeting of the man not the ball.

Thorne was stupid but not dangerous, it was not a spear tackle but a dump of a player involved in a niggling off the ball action. Botha wouldn't do it to McCaw because McCaw wouldn't have antagonised him to start with. Play football or reap what you sew.

- Hayden (Sydney)

Is a cry-baby. Bleating on about one law for the ABs and one for the rest. What a joke. He got stuffed up front last Saturday, he has never won in New Zealand, and he's upset about it. All teams have their moments where they get away with things they probably shouldn't. Umaga on O'Driscoll etc. But Smith should remember that about two seasons ago, Matfield KO'd Kelleher in a very late challenge with a swinging forearm. Not a lot was done about that either. And there was little public moaning from New Zealand management if I recall correctly.

As for the scrums, without Hayman, maybe they were expecting a decent ride - but the fact is, the Bok scrum has been weak for years - and it showed again on Saturday. Have some dignity and walk away. You'll get another chance on African soil soon enough. What you are doing is just giving the ABs more fodder for motivation this coming weekend.

- Tony Elson (AB supporter)

John Smit is 100 per cent correct. It's a bunch of crap what New Zealand gets away with. There is definitely preferential treatment to the AB's.

Why? Who knows?

The pompous wankers need to be brought back to earth, or at least punished for their infringements.

- Dennis

I seem to remember in 2006 an incident involving Lote Tuqiri and Richie McCaw. Tuqiri picked McCaw up and drove his head into the ground, and upon impact his neck visibly bent sideways and his head bounced. Lote Tuqiri was not yellow carded but later suspended. There was no excess of 'whinging' especially not to the extent of which has been shown in this incident, as well The tackle on McCaw was ten times worse than that on Smit.

- Lachie

Good thing our favourite referee Wayne Barnes wasn't in charge otherwise Peter De Villiers and John Smit would have needed a week long press conference to vent their spleens on missed refereeing decisions!

It's a bit rich for John to comment on foul play when we've watched Byron Kelleher and Dan Carter get Victor Matfield's dubious forearm guard in the head two years running in South Africa without Victor ever getting cited plus of course Ritchie McCaw get a real spear tackle from Lote Tuqiri (not lifted up and dropped, nor cleared out from a ruck like BOD). John might also want to take a look at some of the off the ball work by Bakkies and Butch on Ma'a Nonu, Conrad Smith and Dan Carter in Saturday's game none of which was cited.

Perhaps it would be best to channel the energies on the field rather than the microphone.

Either way lets hope for another great Test this weekend!

- Peter (Wellington, New Zealand)

First the coach, now the captain. Who's next? C'mon guys. Get over it. Get ready for the next Test. I have just had a gutful of South Africa complaining about the Test in Wellington. If anything they should be thankful to the referee for not awarding the legit second try by Kaino otherwise the score would have really looked embarrassing for the current World Champs (but not number one!). Don't say that the referee always has something against the SA teams. Rewind back to the World Cup quarters where that English referee awarded a try to France which was result of a forward pass. Replay showed the assistant was in line with Frédéric Michalak when he received the ball and didn't flag it. So stop whinging and start playing rugby. Very tempted to say whinging South African's. I thought that term was reserved for the English only but South Africa is in the running for their fair share of that term now.

- Divildo (All Black in OZ)

Funny how the dirtiest team in world rugby can be so shocked when they are stood up too.

- Ruz

Again there are two sets of rules for SA and the rest of the world. Schalk burger gets a two week ban (during the RWC no less) for a high tackle - down from six weeks on appeal - but Thorn gets a week off for what amounted to a dangerous assault after play was stopped for some time. Where is the balance?

And then the Kiwis then still have the nerve to get morally righteous about the poor call from the ref during play about Kaino's disallowed try! I do not want punitive rulings to destroy the flow of a game either, but then they should not do stupid things. The net result is that we lose our most highly rated and very experienced RWC captain, and the lineout kingpin, from the Tri nations for at least a week, AFTER his injury initially caused poor play from him during the game to cause him to be replaced, and they lose a less highly rated player for the same amount of time. A happy trade for the AB's by any standard.

Applying that logic, if the Boks could rely on this kind of ruling being applied the other way around, perhaps we could get Bakkies to sort out Carter after the whistle and put him out for a game or two? It would be worth the trade off! Of course any such suggestion will be met with moral righteous indignation by all kiwis and probably Aussies too. They would argue that they did not go out to target Smit. Hmm... really? Are you sure, because it did not seem to a be a run of play incident! And may just be purely coincidental that he was the kingpin for our lineout, which was the only set piece that we had a clear advantage (at least on paper) in. But it may not.

If anyone wants further proof of how squeaky clean the AB's are, have a look at their try by Sione Lauaki against in the second game against England from their scrum. In what was clearly a preplanned move from the scrum, their right hand side flanker was not binded and was holding the opposing flanker against the scrum. Lauaki shot straight through the undefended channel. Pity the ref was not competent enough to spot blatant cheating. there have been a number of other incidents where the AB's have used their tight five at rucks to "clean out" defensive players around the fringes of the ruck before sending a man through the gap.

This proves clearly that playing in the spirit of the game is a secondary issue to the AB's.

This incident may be an indication of how far the AB's will go to win a game - right up there with the worst sort of cheating that you can get!

Another facet that the game showed was that Oz/Kiwi refs are not impartial, at least not where SA re concerned. This has been blatantly obvious for a while now in the S14 and Tri-Nations matches, with SA not getting any kind of benefit of the doubt or coming second in the 50/50 calls in the past, but there was never proof.

Lets look at a few facts of this game alone:
- The Boks had asked Stu Dickinson to be on the lookout for the illegal tactics in the scrum - no protection forthcoming
- The fact that he "had not seen" the Smit incident - despite being right next to him (Hell, Smit nearly fell on him!) and having an unobstructed view. Apparently he "only saw Smit go down". Did he think Smit jumped that high into the air by his own power to land on his back for fun? Perhaps Smitty's talents are wasted and he should be a lineout jumper then? Smit would have been right to lead his men off the field if Stu did NOT send off Thorn.
- He missed an AB forward pass in the buildup to their first try. Amazing how the AB's seem to get away with this- and then moan self righteously about a single forward pass in the RWC. As an aside, they had a try allowed to them off a forward pas when they played against England as well.
- The AB midfield was offside for large parts of the game, rushing up in defence, and not a word from Stu. But let a Bok foot stray from the absolute backmost foot of the ruck and see that whistle blow!
- There was hardly a single lineout throw by the AB's in the first half (and most of the second) that was straight. Again missed by Stu. The ones that were straight were (surprisingly!) stolen by Bekker. Its very convenient that Stu's mistakes negated the Boks strength here as well.
- the whistle gets blown as quickly as he can for Bok's not rolling away in the tackle, but AB's are allowed to lie all over the back of the Boks ruck (after "falling over" the ruck, not going straight to ground, which would be penalisable). These fallen AB's get in the way, slow the ball down, and generally make a nuisance of themselves, with apparently free reign.

Clearly the use of Au refs for Bok/AB games in the Tri-Nations and Super 14 is a stuff up, and SARU should insist on Northern Hemisphere refs. Northern Hemisphere refs may make mistakes occasionally, as do any ref's, but at least they would make them consistently to both teams.

The ol' ANZAC spirit is alive and well, to the detriment of SA rugby. In retrospect it was naive for SARU to think that a ref's official responsibility to the game would overcome the little brother/big brother mentality and (maybe even subconscious) bias between Aus/NZ. But now it is time for SARU to put their foot down, before someone gets hurt.

I would like to know the percentage of games won by SA against NZ when playing under an Aussie ref, as opposed to those played under a NH ref. And similar stats for those played under a Kiwi ref. The answer would be telling I think.

- Mike Biagio

Stop crying Smit!!! A spear tackle is when you are lifted and dropped on your head. Your back hit the ground before your head so therefore it was dangerous, but NOT a spear tackle. Maybe if you hadn't taken the cheap shot of trying to push Thorn's face into the ground after the whistle things might have been different.

Also, maybe for the good of the game your boys (Burger, James and Botha in particular) could turn there attention to tackling the guy with the ball, not the support players who are without the ball. The Springbok defence is good, but only because the support players of the other team are being taken out of play leaving the ball carrier without support when you do actually tackle him.

Soon the refs will wake up and you will get yours.

- A positive play rugby supporter

He should just get over it, the Springboks are one of the dirtiest teams anyway so why should he be complaining?!

- Jessie

To all those whining about Thorns "spear" tackle, get your facts straight first. Sure it looked bad, but it was never a spear tackle. To be a spear tackle the player has to be driven head first into the ground. (eg Lote Tuqiri on McCaw). Smit landed on the square of his back. And I am not even sure that Smit injured his groin in that incident also - he managed to play another 40 minutes running and stepping pretty well. He also go to his feet pretty quick to query whether it was a spear tackle (obviously in an attempt to get Thorn sent from the field). In saying that, there is no doubt that Thorn should have got at least 10 in the bin.

- Shane Muir

Far more so than his physical injury, Smit's pride and ego have suffered worse damage from a springbok captain who's team was simply outplayed.

- Old bean

When South Africa lose they start to sound like the English!!!

- Mike

A couple of points should be made. Firstly, what an enjoyable test match, nothing better than the All Blacks playing the Boks, and the tension showed.

Also great to see the players from both sides showing huge respect and the after test inter action between both sides was superb to see, handshakes and smiles all around.

The better team on the day ran off a victors and it all builds up for the second Test nicely.

What annoys me about Smit incident is it has spoilt an absolute classic. While I'm not blaming refs, John Smit is absolutely correct, and good on him for speaking his mind. Had that been Bakkies Botha, the whole world would again label us as thugs. Bakkies would have also faced a much stiffer sentence.

There was off the ball incidents from both sides but Thorne should have been carded immediately.

What is good for one team must apply to all teams and the Kiwis have for far too long got away with actions where other teams get nailed.

- Nick (Cape Town)